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Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#231

Post by throwawaytommy »

dylan604 wrote: post #191
stormbrew wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a little bit younger, and pretty much the same on all of this (except vyvanse for me). I really wish I'd figured it out in my teens or twenties. Also, every time a post on here comes up about elaborate methods of achieving focus the comments are full of people typical-minding what really might actually be ADHD (the whole "everyone is like this right?" thing) and I'm just sitting there like.. maybe you should look…

>mundane task That's why we invented shell scripts and cron! On a serious note, what type of tasks would you consider mundane that you attribute to your ADHD to cause you to not want to do them that any non-ADHD person would also not have procrastination problems? Are these specific to work like filling out time sheets or other TPS reports? Home tasks like laundry/dishes/trash? All of the above? As a non-ADHD person,…

I'll try explaining this one and maybe why you're being downvoted.

The difference is that buckling down and focusing... Don't always work for me. That's the fundamental difference that normal people don't get. That rather simple thing is basically the problem.

I'm pretty good at "adulting" and otherwise coping with my life but I hit roadblocks that other people sail by. I can do very complicated, difficult and tedious tasks but sometimes get stuck doing simple things like paying a parking ticket. I know how to do it. I know when it's due. I know I'll pay a penalty if I pay it late. I think about it all the time. But doing it is like lifting an incredibly heavy weight. Normal people don't feel the weight and think I'm lazy.

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#232

Post by matheusmoreira »

stevefan1999 wrote: post #136

I'm an ADD adult and this especially hits me when I'm participating competitions, be it leetcode coding competition or examination. I just hate to do it and every other bits of attention source will got me seeked on, like a notification from my phone, or someone dropped a pen to the ground. That's how fast I lost focus. But on the other hand sometimes I can be extra-focused, with a prerequisite it's something I enjoy…

Similar experience here. As a kid I couldn't manage to read a couple paragraphs on a boring subject but I could study and practice programming for 12 hours straight. Developed plenty of coping mechanisms and was only diagnosed in adulthood halfway into medical school. Every ADHD patient I've seen has a similar story of hyperattention...

I'm convinced this disorder is named after attention and hyperactivity because the children don't adapt well to school. At least not the traditional mass education model where kids sit in a class listening to lectures all day. There's probably a lot more we don't know about it. Some doctors I've seen think it's a made up illness created to sell amphetamines.

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#233

Post by LordFred »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #69
burtonator wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on Adderall for 5 years ... I'm 43 right now. It really HAS changed my life. What I've found is that over the long term you're able to perform much much better. By the time I was in my 30s I had developed coping skills which worked for the most part but I would find myself getting demotivated and defocused sometimes on long term priorities and sometimes unable to recommit to them. Adderall totally changed t…

You know what's totally nuts? Taking Amphetamine daily for years in reasonable doses essentially has no long term negative effects. In that way, similar to coffee. When I think about that, it's kind of mind blowing. For that matter, it is also crazy that we don't start giving children coffee at younger ages to help focus — since there are no known negative effects. It's just a cultural trope that it stunts growth, et…

Ok, I'll try to jump in here.

a) There are downsides to coffee. I know of a clinical neurologist (Steve Novella) who, when working with a patient with chronic headaches, will always ask "how much coffee do you drink." Always remember, if a "medicine" is doing good, it will have side effects. Period. Note that homeopaths simply love going on about how homeopathy doesn't have any side effects - spoiler, that's because it's not actually doing anything at a physical level.

b) Yes, daily use of stimulants in people with ADHD has been show to be pretty much ok. In fact, there are studies showing that kids who are not medicated are more likely to end up as substance abusers, largely because they're self medicating (remember, drug abuse is a symptom++). However, the kids who were treated with stimulants? No more risk than their neuro-typical peers.

c) The above says NOTHING WHATSOEVER about neuro-typicals taking it daily.

++ Source: my partner, currently doing her neuro-psych masters on addiction.

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#234

Post by LordFred »

Hi all, just want to provide some more information on ADHD in general if people are interested.

http://russellbarkley.org/factsheets.html

The above link is a collection of PDFs summarizing key points on ADHD by Russel Barkley, generally considered by many in the ADHD community to be the 'god' of ADHD research.

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#235

Post by LordFred »

fnord77 wrote: post #172
GABeech wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only thing I had to deal with it slightly is my Ritalin...only so slightly I can "normally" focus for an hour. I just hope things go right in the rest of my life. Talk to your doctor, there have been many advances in ADHD meds and they all work differently on different people. Some people respond well to Ritalin, Some respond well to the generic. Some respond well the Adderal, or Vyvanse. For some people only t…

> there have been many advances in ADHD meds respectfully, I disagree with this. The last new therapy was atomoxetine, which is almost 20 years old now and not seen as terribly efficacious. Everything else new has been some variation on mixed dextroamphetamine/amphetamine salts or methylphenidate. Vyvanse is just a pro-drug for dextroamphetamine. The only novel thing in the pipeline is SPN-812, which may work similar…

> The last new therapy was atomoxetine, which is almost 20 years old now and not seen as terribly efficacious.

I think it's more that it doesn't work for as many people as does stimulant medication. But while it works on fewer people, for those that it does work on (myself and my partner included), it's very effective.

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#236

Post by didibus »

smileybarry wrote: post #221
jiofih wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not true. ~100mg in a cup of coffee, 40mg in an espresso shot, the same 40mg in a can of Coca-Cola (and ~60mg in Diet Coke).

Caffeine in an espresso shot (and conversely one cappuccino) is ~63-77mg[1], and one can of Coca-Cola & Diet is 32mg & 42mg[2]. [1] Nespresso is 63mg (5g of coffee), "average" espresso is 77mg (7g of coffee) https://www.caffeineinformer.com/caffeine-content/espresso [2] https://www.coca-cola.co.uk/ingredients/caffeine/the-caffein...

It would seem some espresso do have the same caffeine as a can of coke, some even clock in less, but ya on average it seems to have about double the amount.

That said, most coffee shop serve double espressos as standard, so if you factor that in, it seems on average your cup of cappuccino might have four time the caffeine than a can of coke.

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#237

Post by toyg »

charliemil4 wrote: post #206
muxamilian wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I drank coffee for several years (around 4 cups a day, not later than 4pm) and suffered from insomnia and didn’t know the origin. Since I stopped caffeine intake, my insomnia is basically gone and I feel a lot more functional because of better sleep. So my impression (yeah I have to admit it’s a study of size 1) is rather that caffeine is more dangerous than I thought.

I wonder what it means if I can drink 4 espressos before bed and sleep like a baby... does anyone have research on caffeine metabolisms and ADHD / other diagnoses?

Not everyone is the same. I have heard of drug addicts who could only drop heroin by replacing it with massive amounts of highly-caffeinated energy drinks, in quantities that would be objectively bad for most regular folks.

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#238

Post by heimatau »

robertely wrote: post #227
heimatau wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but for others its a nightmare. I can only assume one of two reasons: 1. They were on XR. 2. Abuse. If it's another reason, maybe the formulation isn't the best for them because it's highly unlikely to have a 'nightmare' problem with getting off.

+1 on the XR makes it worse, but -1 on the only other reason being abuse. These drugs are not one-size-fits-all. Different people have different reactions.

> These drugs are not one-size-fits-all.

True but...on a probability basis, the two situations I gave are more than the majority of people's reason.

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#239

Post by charliemil4 »

toyg wrote: post #237
charliemil4 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what it means if I can drink 4 espressos before bed and sleep like a baby... does anyone have research on caffeine metabolisms and ADHD / other diagnoses?

Not everyone is the same. I have heard of drug addicts who could only drop heroin by replacing it with massive amounts of highly-caffeinated energy drinks, in quantities that would be objectively bad for most regular folks.

Wow that explains a friend’s monster energy intake

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#240

Post by stormbrew »

dylan604 wrote: post #191
stormbrew wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a little bit younger, and pretty much the same on all of this (except vyvanse for me). I really wish I'd figured it out in my teens or twenties. Also, every time a post on here comes up about elaborate methods of achieving focus the comments are full of people typical-minding what really might actually be ADHD (the whole "everyone is like this right?" thing) and I'm just sitting there like.. maybe you should look…

>mundane task That's why we invented shell scripts and cron! On a serious note, what type of tasks would you consider mundane that you attribute to your ADHD to cause you to not want to do them that any non-ADHD person would also not have procrastination problems? Are these specific to work like filling out time sheets or other TPS reports? Home tasks like laundry/dishes/trash? All of the above? As a non-ADHD person,…

Sibling's explanation is pretty good really. I would also have trouble doing timesheets (have thankfully never had a job that required them) but not because of adhd, just because they seem pointless and like they bring no value to my life at all. Standard adulting things are only an issue in so far as they are often out of sight out of mind, and that's a common struggle for people with ADHD (drawers are our enemy).

Mundane is probably not exactly the right word tbh, but it's hard to find the right word. I think it would be more accurate to describe it as things with a lot of upfront planning involved. If I can basically react my way through something to completion I can get into hyperfocus and just blaze through it.

A lot of the time the way I've gotten around this is to force it to be an emergency so I can't think about it too much. Either by leaving it to the last second or just convincing myself.

And that's a really common pattern you see in people before they get ADHD diagnoses.

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