> children with ADHD require stronger incentives to modify their behavior than those without ADHD5; they also show a failure to delay gratification, have impaired responses to partial schedules of reinforcement, and preference for small immediate rewards over larger delayed rewards6,7. I'm an adult with ADHD and that paragraph describes me to a T, though it definitely was worse as a child I got my first D grade in a…
Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)
181–190 of 337 posts
Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)
#182I'm an ADD adult and this especially hits me when I'm participating competitions, be it leetcode coding competition or examination. I just hate to do it and every other bits of attention source will got me seeked on, like a notification from my phone, or someone dropped a pen to the ground. That's how fast I lost focus. But on the other hand sometimes I can be extra-focused, with a prerequisite it's something I enjoy…
Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)
#183Before I started training myself to meditate, I noticed that drinking a lot of coffee seemed to help me focus better. Though it was only really until I started meditating that I realized it was possible to direct my focus/attention in such a calculated manner. I had always resigned myself to "my attention" controlling the actions I took rather than the other way around with me actively choosing how I apply it.
Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
> there have been many advances in ADHD meds respectfully, I disagree with this. The last new therapy was atomoxetine, which is almost 20 years old now and not seen as terribly efficacious. Everything else new has been some variation on mixed dextroamphetamine/amphetamine salts or methylphenidate. Vyvanse is just a pro-drug for dextroamphetamine. The only novel thing in the pipeline is SPN-812, which may work similar…
Lisdexamfetamine is profoundly different than other variants of amphetamine in utility and experience. It’s not just a prodrug – it has a rather clever molecular time-release mechanism. It comes in very slowly over a period of two hours, with plasma concentration plateau of two more. This makes a big difference; I experience no cravings or drug-seeking for more of the drug at any point. It’s also less of a “jolt”; Th…
I'm not sure how much truth there is to this claim. As you mentioned, Lisdexamfetamine is just Dextroamphetamine bound to the amino acid, l-Lysine.
Once your stomach cleaves the l-Lysine, it yields free-floating D-Amp.
This mechanism of action isn't any different than most formulations of extended-release Dextroamphetamine, like Dexedrine ER spansules.
Additionally, Adderall and other standard mixed-isomer amphetamine salt formulations are a 75/25 mix of D-Amp/L-Amp, and the peripheral nervous system stimulation that L-Amp produces at that kind of dose (5mg for a 20mg pill) I would think to most wouldn't feel very noticeable at all.
Having gone through Adderall IR, Adderall ER, Vyvanse, and Dexedrine IR over the years, to me they all felt more or less the same (besides IR vs ER).
If for whatever reason Vyvanse happens to work better for some people, that's fantastic and more power to you, but the hype behind this is all marketing IMO. And, it's absurdly expensive without insurance.
It was the difference between $250/mo and $20/mo using Good Rx between generic Adderall/Dexedrine and Vyvanse.
Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been on Adderall for 5 years ... I'm 43 right now. It really HAS changed my life. What I've found is that over the long term you're able to perform much much better. By the time I was in my 30s I had developed coping skills which worked for the most part but I would find myself getting demotivated and defocused sometimes on long term priorities and sometimes unable to recommit to them. Adderall totally changed t…
I literally just got diagnosed with adult ADD a month ago. I'm 46! It... explains a lot of things, both for better and for worse. I never even realized I was developing coping skills vs. just developing normal skills, if that makes sense. I definitely have had the same types of problems as you describe. I've been on Ritalin for a few weeks now, and the difference is remarkable. If this is how normal people feel most…
I didn't mean to reply and talk about myself, I actually wanted to ask (if you wanted to share), about what led you to the diagnosis at that age - what kinds of things were not working for you? What were you developing coping skills for?
Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)
#186I'm an ADD adult and this especially hits me when I'm participating competitions, be it leetcode coding competition or examination. I just hate to do it and every other bits of attention source will got me seeked on, like a notification from my phone, or someone dropped a pen to the ground. That's how fast I lost focus. But on the other hand sometimes I can be extra-focused, with a prerequisite it's something I enjoy…
I encourage you to embrace the chemical imbalance as the reason. The medications do work and withdrawing from them isn't bad either (if you decide to take a pill holiday or extended non-use).
Finally, it's not about 'normal' focus. It's about you. If you're content with your productivity and behavior, then nothing is needed to change in your life. If you want to maximize your potential, then please consider medication. It doesn't go away (CBT never worked for me). Embrace your choice. Whatever you decide, is normal, it's your normal. That's perfectly acceptable.
Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lisdexamfetamine is profoundly different than other variants of amphetamine in utility and experience. It’s not just a prodrug – it has a rather clever molecular time-release mechanism. It comes in very slowly over a period of two hours, with plasma concentration plateau of two more. This makes a big difference; I experience no cravings or drug-seeking for more of the drug at any point. It’s also less of a “jolt”; Th…
> Lisdexamfetamine is profoundly different than other variants of amphetamine in utility and experience. It’s not just a prodrug – it has a rather clever molecular time-release mechanism I'm not sure how much truth there is to this claim. As you mentioned, Lisdexamfetamine is just Dextroamphetamine bound to the amino acid, l-Lysine. Once your stomach cleaves the l-Lysine, it yields free-floating D-Amp. This mechanism…
This is incorrect. – With all due respect!
The action is enzymatic, and the enzyme is in red blood cells. It is slow. This is not the same as other “mechanical” time-release mechanisms. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisdexamfetamine
Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been on Adderall for 5 years ... I'm 43 right now. It really HAS changed my life. What I've found is that over the long term you're able to perform much much better. By the time I was in my 30s I had developed coping skills which worked for the most part but I would find myself getting demotivated and defocused sometimes on long term priorities and sometimes unable to recommit to them. Adderall totally changed t…
I started taking it in my late 30s for ADD and it was life changing. Over time though it was making me super angry so I stopped taking it. I now focus on sleep and exercise but my career really accelerated while I was taking it.
Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
> we don't start giving children coffee at younger ages to help focus > we are inhibiting our full potential because of misplaced fears? I'll argue with the assumption that there is zero long term psychobiological consequences to exogenous psychostimulants (I personally don't buy this, but let's assume it was true). Increasing focus and task salience is only one of the many factors constitutive of human potential. Th…
I'm not sure that the affects of stimulants for ADD are across the board, as you describe. That is, for lots of people, me included, add meds seem to boost my executive functions. Without them, I actually have no problem focusing on certain things, but it's usually some unimportant problem or project that I become distracted by. With meds, I find it much easier to step back and get a clear picture of not just my work…
> With meds, I find it much easier to step back and get a clear picture of not just my work, but my whole life.
Executive function boost is non-negligible for sure, but it is still bound to operate in the short term.
Think your bioeconomics as a ledger, your energy levels as income and what you want to do as payments. Stimulants alter this ledger and as long as you can use them you will think you have a lot more income and you can sign up for more things to do. But do you really do have more income in the long term? Are you borrowing from your future income? Your future dopaminergic system? Your future neuroticism levels? I know the research is either missing or contested, but everything from evening crashes to need for increasing the dosage to long term dependence risk suggests that we are borrowing something from somewhere.
> I become more attentive to my family, less irritated by distractions.
Let me play the devil's advocate for a second: How do you know being more attentive to your family is the right thing? Maybe they are real assholes taking you for granted and getting irritated with them would make them get their act together and have a better chance in long term sustainable relationship. How do you know the distractions are not irritation worthy? Maybe they are things you need to get to the root of instead of enduring continuously.
I am exaggerating to make a point, and I'm sure you're mostly fine, but the danger is that thinking you have more "income" than you do will affect all your decisions in a way that accumulates and might not be long term sustainable. It can make you more conforming, and this will be praised by your family, boss, for the case with kids, their parents, but can we say with certainty that being more conforming all the time is really in one's best interest? Anger, irritation, anxiety, depression and even boredom, they are not there just as human failings but also as normal processes that can counter-balance over-exertion, over-exposure, weakly defended personal boundaries, meaninglessness, resentment.
Only way to know how continuous stimulant use is affecting you is to take a long break after multi-year use and evaluate where your life is, which for some people can be too late.
Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
You know what's totally nuts? Taking Amphetamine daily for years in reasonable doses essentially has no long term negative effects. In that way, similar to coffee. When I think about that, it's kind of mind blowing. For that matter, it is also crazy that we don't start giving children coffee at younger ages to help focus — since there are no known negative effects. It's just a cultural trope that it stunts growth, et…
> we don't start giving children coffee at younger ages to help focus > we are inhibiting our full potential because of misplaced fears? I'll argue with the assumption that there is zero long term psychobiological consequences to exogenous psychostimulants (I personally don't buy this, but let's assume it was true). Increasing focus and task salience is only one of the many factors constitutive of human potential. Th…
Focus and discipline is very useful when solutions to problems are known.
But put someone extremely methodical in charge of R&D and they will take a zillion years to explore a large search space. Meanwhile a neurotic will run around randomly and stumble upon all kinds of things on the map. The down side with the neurotic mind, is after a prospective gold mine is found and a lot of methodical, disciplined work is required to exploit it they flake out.
Now if you pair them up interesting things unfold.
We are quiet good at identifying people's strengths and weakness. But we spend a lot of time exploiting weakness and squandering strengths of people.
If only the opposite happened more.
With better and growing understanding of how different minds work, I think we will see people compensating for each others weaknesses more.