Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010) • Hacker News Board

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#101

Post by kayodelycaon » Sat, Oct 03, 2020, 5:23 PM UTC

andai wrote: post #67

kayodelycaon wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bipolar, schizophrenia, and depression can also cause attention deficient. It is extremely common for children with Bipolar to be misdiagnosed as ADHD. Depression is usually easier to diagnose accurately. Schizophrenia can be hit or miss, depending on severity. In my case (I'm bipolar), psychosis was so much a part of my normal life that I was completely blind to it and my external symptoms weren't severe enough to b…

I'm curious if you're willing to share, how psychosis can be a part of a normal life, how you can have it for any length of time without it being recognizable? Did I understand correctly? Is it like, having a very unusual perception of reality, but not so unusual as to interfere with normal functioning? In people I know who have experienced it, it was very debilitating, so I hadn't even considered the possibility of…

I'll send you an email, as this is getting off topic. :)

Edit... this ended up being an entire blog post, my blog and email are in my profile.

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#102

Post by jm4 » Sat, Oct 03, 2020, 5:24 PM UTC

dr_dshiv wrote: post #69

burtonator wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on Adderall for 5 years ... I'm 43 right now. It really HAS changed my life. What I've found is that over the long term you're able to perform much much better. By the time I was in my 30s I had developed coping skills which worked for the most part but I would find myself getting demotivated and defocused sometimes on long term priorities and sometimes unable to recommit to them. Adderall totally changed t…

You know what's totally nuts? Taking Amphetamine daily for years in reasonable doses essentially has no long term negative effects. In that way, similar to coffee. When I think about that, it's kind of mind blowing. For that matter, it is also crazy that we don't start giving children coffee at younger ages to help focus — since there are no known negative effects. It's just a cultural trope that it stunts growth, et…

In some cultures it's common to give kids coffee. My parents didn't give me coffee when I was a kid but my wife's parents started giving it to her at an early age. My kids both drink coffee. My older one started on black coffee when he was 2. It's just a routine part of his day. Coffee at breakfast and then at cafecito in the afternoon.

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#103

Post by ryanobjc » Sat, Oct 03, 2020, 5:25 PM UTC

gremlinsinc wrote: post #28

_dibly wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take 30-MG Adderall XRs, my brothers both take IR before classes since they have more downtime, but I work from home so most days I wake up and work until 4-5PM at my desk. Also worth mentioning that we all take the doctor recommended dosages, I worked my way up from 10MG doses and I absolutely do not recommend self-medicating in any way.

you wouldn't know anything about adhd meds and depression/anxiety? I've had panic attacks this year, I had depression years ago, went to therapy a lot better on that front. Enter: Xoloft followed by Trintellix (1 week in). I dealt w/ them pretty well, I'd go lay down, breathe and maybe take a cat nap, wake up in 30 minutes go back to work feeling like a million dollars. Now, not so much. So, I started xoloft a month…

I do. I was having anxiety attacks on dextroamphetamine. 5 mg a day. I was resigned to dealing with them sometimes.

Then I by happenstance quit caffeine. And panic attacks went away. Sleep problems went away.

The meds were potentiating the caffeine!

Try quitting caffeine!

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#104

Post by dx87 » Sat, Oct 03, 2020, 5:28 PM UTC

whimsicalism wrote: post #85

dx87 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the stigma against the medication, and the people who casually say "omg, I'm like, so ADD" really hurt the people who have actually been diagnosed with it. Depending on where you live, it can be difficult to find a psychiatrist willing to see you for a diagnoses and subsequent prescription because they think that you're a college kid wanting to abuse it or sell it. I had to call 4-5 different offices until I fo…

From my perspective, the thing that has hurt the credibility around ADHD diagnoses is the pretty blatant use by affluent parents to get diagnoses so they can get test-time extensions for their kids. ADHD diagnosis is much more strongly correlated with affluence than many other mental illnesses. Eliminating the 504 accommodation would be beneficial in my view.

That's completely irrelevenat to what I was talking about. As an adult, it can be difficult to find a psychiatrist willing to prescribe medication.

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#105

Post by winter_blue » Sat, Oct 03, 2020, 5:29 PM UTC

dr_dshiv wrote: post #69

burtonator wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on Adderall for 5 years ... I'm 43 right now. It really HAS changed my life. What I've found is that over the long term you're able to perform much much better. By the time I was in my 30s I had developed coping skills which worked for the most part but I would find myself getting demotivated and defocused sometimes on long term priorities and sometimes unable to recommit to them. Adderall totally changed t…

You know what's totally nuts? Taking Amphetamine daily for years in reasonable doses essentially has no long term negative effects. In that way, similar to coffee. When I think about that, it's kind of mind blowing. For that matter, it is also crazy that we don't start giving children coffee at younger ages to help focus — since there are no known negative effects. It's just a cultural trope that it stunts growth, et…

> You know what's totally nuts? Taking Amphetamine daily for years in reasonable doses essentially has no long term negative effects. In that way, similar to coffee.

Wow, that is truly amazing. I'm glad to learn about that.

I notice a slight depression if I stop taking my ADHD meds for a few days (perhaps up to a week), but after that I'm back to my old (ADHD-driven) self. So in a sense, it's not addictive at all. The depression can tempt one to get back on it, but that's about it.

One side effect of Adderall though is ED, and it's pretty bad. I guess it depends on the person, but for me, the ED was quite bad. The ED does go away after getting off of it.

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#106

Post by winter_blue » Sat, Oct 03, 2020, 5:34 PM UTC

treeman79 wrote: post #20

_dibly wrote: post #7

This was an interesting read but, as an adult with ADHD, all I get out of this is that medication is even more of a benefit to those with real difficulties coping with their ADHD. I've always been one to 'just deal with it' but after a few years of working through school and seeing my younger brothers go through the same thing with medication, I realized that I was essentially just handicapping myself. Now I take med…

Took adderal for year. Completely life changing. My focus and energy level were on par with a normal persons. Unfortunately it was far too hard on the body. Started stroking out on it. Plus it interacted with almost every Medicane I’ve been prescribed. Tried vyvanse. Only one side effect. The deepest most profound sadness imaginable. Would sit for hours just “sad”. Nothing was bothering me. Worked fine aside from tha…

> Tried vyvanse. Only one side effect. The deepest most profound sadness imaginable. Would sit for hours just “sad”. Nothing was bothering me. Worked fine aside from that. Gave it up after a few weeks.

Omg, I actually experience this very thing for myself. I thought I was unique in experiencing the "deepest most profound sadness imaginable" from Vyvanse. It's good to know it wasn't just me.

I did eventually connect the dots with Vyvanse, after taking it a bunch of times. I did several "test runs" where I took it some days, and not other days, and the deep sadness always and consistently occurred about 3-4 hours after taking Vyvanse.

Thankfully, Adderall doesn't have this horrible side effect.

> Aderral did remove most of the “pain” from boring things. So in that regards it taught me how to manage symptoms better. Focus is still a major problem, and I’m back to older trucks of ear plugs and a dim room. But not as bad as before.

I've read that exercise can go a long way in mitigating ADHD. I'm trying to now motivate myself to exercise -- which if I'm able to do would essentially solve the problem ADHD (at least partially), and create a positive feedback loop that could improve my life for the better in the long run.

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#107

Post by treeman79 » Sat, Oct 03, 2020, 5:36 PM UTC

andai wrote: post #66

treeman79 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proper dosage for me can be 10-100 times less then a normal person. Varies greatly. One kid gets really bad headaches from less then 2mg pill. It’s a hard decision. Constantly monitoring them to see if they can manage without it. I think one is going to be okay with out. Other one is probably going to have to go on. Still very young though

Do they make them at such low doses or do you need to split it yourself?

Split myself. Quarter of a 10mg pill (2-3mg) will either give me energy $ focus all day, put me to sleep, or give me the worst imaginable headache/partial blindness that takes days to recover from.

Was prescribed amatriptine for nerve damage. I had to get the lowest possible dosage, break pills into quarters. Even then it was still way too strong. ~1mg by my guess.

Doctors & pills straight up hate me.

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#108

Post by cik2e » Sat, Oct 03, 2020, 5:38 PM UTC

kekebo wrote: post #92

cik2e wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are supplements, backed by research, that practically remove all of the negative side effects of adderall. To start with, the sadness you felt on vyvanse sounds like dopamine depletion. You want to be taking l-tyrosine to make sure there’s plenty of fuel for the amphetamine to work with. ALCAR + ALA counteract the psychomotor agitation and tolerance formation. Magnesium + zinc help with muscle cramping. Seleniu…

Can you recommend any sources for the mentioned supplements and their interaction with amphetamines?

I’d try to retrace my path through the research for you but I’m on mobile for the rest of the day. I got the anecdotal recommendations from Reddit and then was able to confirm everything on google scholar. So just search for “amphetamine + supplement” on scholar and it should be easy to find the relevant papers. I will say that a lot of them were animal studies but I seem to recall at least a few human trials in the mix.

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#109

Post by topicseed » Sat, Oct 03, 2020, 5:39 PM UTC

aidenn0 wrote: post #55

_dibly wrote: post #7

This was an interesting read but, as an adult with ADHD, all I get out of this is that medication is even more of a benefit to those with real difficulties coping with their ADHD. I've always been one to 'just deal with it' but after a few years of working through school and seeing my younger brothers go through the same thing with medication, I realized that I was essentially just handicapping myself. Now I take med…

Which "more modern" medication are you on, out of curiosity? Ritalin causes side effects for me as soon as I start to hit the therapeutic dose when titrating. Adderall is terrible for me. My youngest daughter is undoubtedly ADHD, and the insurance company requires you to try the first two before they will approve a third...

Not OP, but I believe some people with ADHD seem to be helped with Modafinil (Provigil). It is normally used for severe lethargy and narcolepsy but has been working for ADHD, too.

Re: Adults with ADHD show decreased function in brain dopamine reward pathway (2010)

#110

Post by itronitron » Sat, Oct 03, 2020, 5:40 PM UTC

whimsicalism wrote: post #85

dx87 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the stigma against the medication, and the people who casually say "omg, I'm like, so ADD" really hurt the people who have actually been diagnosed with it. Depending on where you live, it can be difficult to find a psychiatrist willing to see you for a diagnoses and subsequent prescription because they think that you're a college kid wanting to abuse it or sell it. I had to call 4-5 different offices until I fo…

From my perspective, the thing that has hurt the credibility around ADHD diagnoses is the pretty blatant use by affluent parents to get diagnoses so they can get test-time extensions for their kids. ADHD diagnosis is much more strongly correlated with affluence than many other mental illnesses. Eliminating the 504 accommodation would be beneficial in my view.

I was talking with my wife just last week about my hypothesis that there is probably a strong correlation between prescriptions for various performance enhancing drugs (such as Adderall and Ritalin) and the number of extracurricular activities that high school students are signed up for.