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IPhones and 3G iPads log your location in an unencrypted file on the device

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Re: IPhones and 3G iPads log your location in an unencrypted file on the device

#61

Post by r00fus »

hexley wrote: post #48
jstn wrote: post #15

Whether or not this is true, Apple should add something like File Vault to iOS. Encrypting your backups is redundant if you're already encrypting your whole home directory, but none of that matters if they have access to your unencrypted phone. Check out the police downloader devices the ACLU is investigating: http://www.aclumich.org/issues/privacy-and-technology/2011-0...

Everything on the iPhone (from 3GS forward) is already encrypted afaik. That's how remote wipe works instantly (by just deleting the encryption keys)

This is incorrect. Device encryption on 3GS and later devices are only for 1) Apps that implement Apple's device encryption API (ie, stashPro now has this) 2) If you have a strong password set and 3) Unless you have a device released with iOS4.x, you will need to wipe, then restore it with the flag turned on

http://www.tipb.com/2011/03/18/daily-tip-enable-data-protect...

Re: IPhones and 3G iPads log your location in an unencrypted file on the device

#62

Post by kovar »

ImprovedSilence wrote: post #30
desigooner wrote: post #19

It might not be directly related but there was a news story on CNET [1] yesterday about cops in Michigan using a device from Cellebrite to download information from phones of people they stopped for violations that includes contacts, phone logs, messages, photographs and location history. Does Apple's decision of having such information stored on the phone unencrypted make it easy for such devices? The device claims…

I've actually used that device before. It's fairly common in law enforcement and inteligence agencies, and it will take everything. Including passwords/deleted info. There is no reason for using it on a traffic stop though, that's just straight up invasion of privacy and would piss me off to no end. It's use is (and should be) for the more criminal/forensic cases.

And it doesn't work on all devices out there, and doesn't fully collect the devices it does work with.

Most forensics labs have multiple tools such as this, and still have issues fully collecting devices.

Re: IPhones and 3G iPads log your location in an unencrypted file on the device

#63

Post by runjake »

I didn't know this was news. I and other security researchers & law enforcement have known about it for a while. I assisted in one court case where the data was used as evidence.

I suspect the slick-looking iPhoneTracker app finally made it interesting to the media.

Edit: There was a similar deal on iOS 3 but it seemed more like a bug, not a feature. Data would be purged at some unpredictable interval. I can't recall the file path and don't have an iOS 3 device handy.

Re: IPhones and 3G iPads log your location in an unencrypted file on the device

#65

Post by ugh »

edw wrote: post #60
ugh wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comparison is very apt. Consent often changes how we view things. Rape and privacy violations are not the same but when it comes to consent very similar.

So you think it's defensible to say that Apple is raping its users? Let's get some people who have been victims of rape in here and ask them how they feel about this over-the-top analogy.

For comparisons to be useful, you don't have to take everything literally. As far as the question of consent is concerned, the comparison is apt.

Re: IPhones and 3G iPads log your location in an unencrypted file on the device

#66

Post by kovar »

cooldeal wrote: post #23
delano wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have references for those claims?

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/34/3458.asp

There's a lot of marketing hype in here. There are a lot of mobile device collection tools and none of them fully collect every device out there.

Also, collecting a 64GB i over USB will take at least 24 minutes. (You don't really just want the photos, do you.) That makes for a long traffic stop.

Re: IPhones and 3G iPads log your location in an unencrypted file on the device

#67

Post by yardie »

phlux wrote: post #36
yardie wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quality of service. Like when the iPhone 3G first came out you could only buy it in areas where 3G service was available. AFAIK, most carriers already do this on all their handsets but their data is restricted to just a few days to a a few months.

Right, if QoS were a concern to att, my phone would not drop/fail to make seriously, 75% of the calls. I am switching to Tmobile because ATT makes me want to go on a rampage. Of course, now using this file, they'll be able to predict where that rampage will occur.

If it makes you feel better, the little dots aren't your location specifically but the location of the tower you are connected to at that instance.[1]

[1] This is according to a commenter on another blog. I'm still on 3.1 so can't verify these claims either way. But this seems to confirm it http://blog.csvance.com/?p=39#comment-109

Re: IPhones and 3G iPads log your location in an unencrypted file on the device

#69

Post by jokermatt999 »

edw wrote: post #58
jokermatt999 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love being able to visualize my comings and goings. Then use something like Latitude. There are options for you if you want to see this data other than having Apple collect data from all users whether they like it or not.

I think you are confused: you say that "Apple collect[s] data." Apple's software is collecting data, but is it the case that Apple has access to this data? I don't think so. There are issues of agency here: in my interpretation of things, my phone is collecting and storing the data, Apple isn't. I guess I have some sort of perverse desire to see my karma auger into the x axis thanks to this issue, because people seem…

I said "Apple collects data" as a shorthand for "Apple's software collects data and stores it on your phone" because the distinction you're making seems to be meaningless to most people. I can see your point though.

Still, I don't see why this is better than an optional, third party application for this data. I also think that people should be upset at their phone keeping this data without their knowledge. You say it could be useful, but useful to whom? Advertisers, stalkers, "The Government"? I can't see how this useful to most users at all.

computers log data, A phone is a computer.

I think most people view their phone somewhat more intimately than their computer. Notice the uproar any time privacy issues like these are raised about a phone. Furthermore, tracking someone's location is just about the creepiest thing you could do for most people. It's just ripe for abuse, and as I stated earlier, I can't see much in the way of positive use.

Re: IPhones and 3G iPads log your location in an unencrypted file on the device

#70

Post by edw »

crocowhile wrote: post #12
yardie wrote: post #7

I can sort of understand the outrage but I don't see the utility of it. Apps that are written for the App store don't have access to this data without the permission of the user. And the only way an app would be allowed access to a file outside the sandbox is if its jailbroken. I'm not familiar with the in and outs of iOS LocationManager but it generally gives you the immediate coordinates at the time you request and…

They are collecting private information about a person and make them somehow accessible. I'll give you an example: now your technologically savvy and pathological jealous partner can open that file on your phone while you are sleeping and check where have you been in the past months, day by day. Iphone users should be aware of that possibility. EDIT: Actually, now that I looked at the software presented here, it does…

Yes, your partner can do this if you let him or her access to your computer's account. Keep in mind that if you let your partner use your account, he or she can also look at all your cookies, your browser history, and probably your Facebook account and Gmail accounts.

If you don't trust your partner and want to rummage through his or her computer—or if you worry about the prospect of your partner rummaging through your computer—you may want to go to a couples' therapist.

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