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Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

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Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#261

Post by MattGaiser »

csense wrote: post #213
sirspacey wrote: post #156

The article clearly identifies the source of this challenge: HR culture I’ve worked in HR in the US. To say it is unbearably broken doesn’t begin to cover it. Japan’s rigid hiring rituals are specific but I’ve encountered quite a bit of rigidity in HR culture in the US as well. As we see nearly daily here on HN, the “filter process” HR uses is highly resistant to change and based on traditions that are objectively us…

If a lot of companies have rigid hiring processes where a lot of talented people through the cracks, why aren't those people snapped up by competitors who are more flexible?

I have seen a few attempts/startups attempting alternative ways of identifying candidates. Mindsumo.com [0] is the one I know best (although they pivoted later on) By and large, it still seems to be the same people who come out on top.

[0] https://www.cnet.com/news/mindsumo-the-x-prize-of-hiring/

It would not surprise me if a lot of decent candidates get turned down in the rush to hire star candidates, but I doubt many star candidates are actually being missed by the economy as a whole.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#262

Post by sirspacey »

csense wrote: post #213
sirspacey wrote: post #156

The article clearly identifies the source of this challenge: HR culture I’ve worked in HR in the US. To say it is unbearably broken doesn’t begin to cover it. Japan’s rigid hiring rituals are specific but I’ve encountered quite a bit of rigidity in HR culture in the US as well. As we see nearly daily here on HN, the “filter process” HR uses is highly resistant to change and based on traditions that are objectively us…

If a lot of companies have rigid hiring processes where a lot of talented people through the cracks, why aren't those people snapped up by competitors who are more flexible?

Because this is truly a cultural issue - meaning every company is significantly plagued by it in nearly all of their hiring areas.

Having consulted with hundreds of startups and businesses, and a fair number of Fortune 500s, I’ve personally seen how universal the challenge is.

Here’s an experiment: name one employer that properly vets tech talent for the role and work they do once hired.

Edit: appeasing the autocorrect gods.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#263

Post by junkrat002 »

offtop5 wrote: post #174
ravenstine wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've found Meetup to work very well for getting out of the house. Except a lot of the meetups where I live either haven't come back or they are "virtual". :(

I was thinking before Corona, last year was very good for me. Once you realize social media is mostly fake validation seeking behavior you can decide if that's what you want . Ends up being tons of stress and mental anguish for nothing at all. I'll say without a doubt people are absolutely meaner via social media vs real life. I recall when I lived in Chicago how everyone in certain areas knew each other. Act like a…

I left reddit for the same reason. It gets ugly fast.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#264

Post by sirspacey »

MattGaiser wrote: post #261
csense wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a lot of companies have rigid hiring processes where a lot of talented people through the cracks, why aren't those people snapped up by competitors who are more flexible?

I have seen a few attempts/startups attempting alternative ways of identifying candidates. Mindsumo.com [0] is the one I know best (although they pivoted later on) By and large, it still seems to be the same people who come out on top. [0] https://www.cnet.com/news/mindsumo-the-x-prize-of-hiring/ It would not surprise me if a lot of decent candidates get turned down in the rush to hire star candidates, but I doubt ma…

I’m a fan of TripleByte, they’ve continued to iterate and evolve in interesting ways.

Still, its nearly a myth that companies hire based on merit.

Hiring through social networks is much more significant.

A simple example:

Most companies see applying for a job as the first step in connecting with a career opportunity.

Every career coach will tell you not to apply until you’ve networked into the company.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#265

Post by 8bitsrule »

To which entity are they 'lost'? To the state? To corporations?

"Those who successfully navigate the arduous corporate recruiting process will be rewarded with a secure place on the corporate ladder"

Those who do not see that (+ the 60-80-hour weeks) as rewarding will not be motivated to pursue it. Economic slavery is over-rated.

They may or may not be 'lost' to themselves, depending on what they're doing with all that time. Across Asia, many people found themselves meditating for decades. They weren't jacked into any perverse realities.

"The rest are largely condemned to flit from one low-paying job to the next, with little avenue for advancement and zero job security." Wow, judgemental much?

Many well-known authors, poets, artists, composers, DJs,even hackers found themselves in that position. It's a fair cop, but society's to blame.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#266

Post by jxramos »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #127

I feel like the "Jobless and living with parents" pejorative is missing the mark. Jobless -- So what? If a country has figured out how to provide for its people w/o jobs, so what? For example if we had perfect AI-robot slaves we'd all be jobless. Would it be a problem? Maybe we should ask people why they want a job, maybe what they want to do doesnt require one? "Living with their parents" - Again, so what? Much of t…

I think those two properties are probably assumed to be indicative of a pretty unsurprising ticking timebomb for the poor situation brewing in the individual's future. Basically it's a strong signal of lack of independence and a strong sign of dependence, dependency upon a parent who is the one taking care of business in some way that keeps the bills paid and the both of them alive. When the parent passes on how will these individuals function and survive I think is the big gaping question.

To further aggravate things too I suppose, if the parent's health declines and requires the financial help of their children who cannot provide it then you're left with a situation where two dependents are present to the situation.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#267

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

8bitsrule wrote: post #265

To which entity are they 'lost'? To the state? To corporations? "Those who successfully navigate the arduous corporate recruiting process will be rewarded with a secure place on the corporate ladder" Those who do not see that (+ the 60-80-hour weeks) as rewarding will not be motivated to pursue it. Economic slavery is over-rated. They may or may not be 'lost' to themselves, depending on what they're doing with all th…

This is delusional. It would be fine if all these shut-ins were living personally satisfied, fulfilling lives. But the vast, vast, vast majority are not. Most live with deep regret, shame, depression, and isolation, and romanticizing their situation as some sort of meditative peace is f'd up in my opinion.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#268

Post by maerF0x0 »

krrishd wrote: post #193
maerF0x0 wrote: post #127

I feel like the "Jobless and living with parents" pejorative is missing the mark. Jobless -- So what? If a country has figured out how to provide for its people w/o jobs, so what? For example if we had perfect AI-robot slaves we'd all be jobless. Would it be a problem? Maybe we should ask people why they want a job, maybe what they want to do doesnt require one? "Living with their parents" - Again, so what? Much of t…

> For example if we had perfect AI-robot slaves we'd all be jobless. Would it be a problem? i mean, it almost certainly would be, right? feel like we very instinctively/subconsciously derive our self-worth from what we're worth to our society (which tautologically comes from the share of responsibilities we take on). maybe the jobs wouldn't resemble anything like those of today, but i have no doubt we have an innate…

> self-worth from what we're worth to our society

Is employer granted employment the only way to have value in a society?

Personally I value motherhood far more than anything a woman could do in the workplace. Of course it's her choice what she wants to do with her life, but it's my opinion that there's little more important to a society than intensive investment in its children.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#269

Post by jxramos »

info781 wrote: post #256

I blame the parents for this, they should have kicked the kids out of the house when they were 22. Then they could live with roommates, men and women and learn how to live. There was a show about that in the '90s bunch of good-looking men and women and sometimes a monkey. I can't remember the name of it though.

I was wondering about that "enabling" angle as well. I remember when I was in my young twenties a good friend of mine had a parent who pushed him out of the nest. I remember being shocked and offended by the crazy act and thought it equally outrageous as he did. Years later I look back and see that it actually taught my friend the ropes and the difficulties in life taken for granted with the parents taking care of things they figured out years ago. People won't know how hard life is until they get their hands dirty and make it on their own.

I always found it curious how the various species out there push their offspring on to adulthood. Trial by fire, diving in to learn how to swim, there's a lot of wisdom in all that. Life is hard, and at some point you realize people don't get get old by default, unencumbered by adversity and trials and tribulations--all those older folks you see are actually survivors.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#270

Post by cdavid »

ivalm wrote: post #238
cryptica wrote: post #168

I don't think it's a coincidence that Japan has the highest debt-to-GDP ratio and also the largest number of jobless youth living with their parents. Debt fueled by inflationary government money-printing drives wealth inequality between asset owners and salary earners. Newly printed currency boosts asset prices and inflates away salaries. As Milton Friedman pointed out, it also increases the tax burden on citizens tw…

That’s a lot of words but your facts are false. 1. Japan has low wealth inequality 2. Japan does NOT have high inflation 3. Japan has both low unemployment and high labor participation [1] https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/SI.POV.GINI/rank... [2] https://tradingeconomics.com/japan/inflation-cpi [3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_market_of_Japan

2 and 3 are true, 1 is more debatable. Gini coefficient of Japan is quite higher than most European countries, though it measures income not wealth. US are at 0.39, Japan at 0.34, most Western European countries below 0.3.

A lot of people here also base their thinking on visits to Japan, but that's sampling bias. Poverty is less obvious than in the US or even Europe, but Japan poverty rate is at ~15.5 %, much closer again to the US (~17.5 %) than to Western European countries, closer to 10 % or even below.

There are plenty of "dead" cities in Japan that are depopulating fast, but they are not on a typical tour when you visit the country. Some of them are < 1 hour of train from center Tokyo.

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