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Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

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Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the debt is held by the Japanese themselves. They control their own currency. It isn't likely to be a problem for them.

It is going to be a problem because in an inflationary monetary system, you need to give out loans at a constantly increasing rate in order to pay off the debt of the previous generation. If the new generation is not growing fast enough, they will not be able to afford to take out enough new debt to buy assets from the previous generation (thus allowing the previous generation to pay of their debts from the sale or l…

I’m wondering what you mean by “real estate prices are so high in Japan”? Relative to other countries? Or some point in the past in Japan?

My assumption is that declining population is leading to surplus housing and declining real-estate prices in most of the country.

And even in the Tokyo area where demand is still strong, homes are still more affordable than in other large cities like New York and London.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the debt is held by the Japanese themselves. They control their own currency. It isn't likely to be a problem for them.

It is going to be a problem because in an inflationary monetary system, you need to give out loans at a constantly increasing rate in order to pay off the debt of the previous generation. If the new generation is not growing fast enough, they will not be able to afford to take out enough new debt to buy assets from the previous generation (thus allowing the previous generation to pay of their debts from the sale or l…

You can buy a detached house in the Tokyo Metropolitan area for less than a 1 bedroom condo in Vancouver, Canada. An old house for significantly less. This broad observation is easily confirmed by browsing real estate listings.

E.g. random hit: small 3LDK house in Kashiwa built in 1981:

https://house.goo.ne.jp/buy/uh/detail/4/12217/37091100002300...

6000000 yen ~= $60K USD.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#213

The article clearly identifies the source of this challenge: HR culture I’ve worked in HR in the US. To say it is unbearably broken doesn’t begin to cover it. Japan’s rigid hiring rituals are specific but I’ve encountered quite a bit of rigidity in HR culture in the US as well. As we see nearly daily here on HN, the “filter process” HR uses is highly resistant to change and based on traditions that are objectively us…

If a lot of companies have rigid hiring processes where a lot of talented people through the cracks, why aren't those people snapped up by competitors who are more flexible?

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#214
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again. We're failing to address the "so what?" What does this scenario represent that is _the actual problem_ of the matter?

> What does this scenario represent that is _the actual problem_ of the matter? Among others: - Crippling depression for many of those who are jobless and living with their parents in a culture that is not exactly friendly to them. - An increased incidence of health issues that are correlated with depression and loneliness. - Decreased quality of life for elderly parents who need to support their children within the…

>Many of them don't want to be in the position they're in.

I wonder what proportion. In some online circles, being a NEET is actually a bit of a badge of honor. In others (in fact, on both sides of the political spectrum), those working regular jobs (in particular low-paid jobs) are prejoratively referred to as wageslaves (or "wagie"). What's more, many hikikomori in Japan have developed pop-culture interests and spend their time consuming media. I can imagine someone in that state of mind finding it hard to get bored, but I can also imagine many who would get bored after a month or two. It may just come down to personal disposition.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#215

I went to university in the same city I grew up in, and made the mistake of living with my with my parents for the first two years. Let me tell you, you don't really become an adult until you move out.

Is there anything to this comment except No True Scotsman arbitrary gatekeeping? The internet is full of "you don't become a REAL xyz until" followed by a gatekeeping filter which the commenter just made up, something they have passed and people they look down on have not passed.

What about being able to vote and drive and join the military, those are predicated on a legal value of "being an adult" which is a cutoff at age 18. Well we can guess that Saint_Genet really means something about independence and self-reliance, so exclude them. What about a trust-fund child who moves out but still gets money and support from their parents? Preumably the gate moves slightly to exclude those people because having to take responsibility is the REAL filter? And what about people who had awful parents and had to "grow up early" or take care of their parents? Shift the gate around them, too because they're respectable people who should be on the superior side of the gate. What about people who move out, have children, and rely on the grandparents for childcare and support - well they're adults because that's expected and an approved kind of parental support in US culture, no worries. People who moved out, had children, and want the state to fund childcare in some way? Adults? Not adults? Depends on how ruggedly independent and scared of socialism you are. Someone who lives with their parents but is self-employed and employs others whose income depends on the company being well-run, adult or not adult? Judge it based on where they sleep at night, because that makes sense. Someone who lives with their parents and compromises on a shared living situation vs someone who lives alone and has nobody to please or think about but themselves, and pays for a cleaner, and eats out every day? More or less adult?

Draw the gate wherever it makes you feel superior and able to look down on people you just put on the other side. Empty internet status-grab comment.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan seemed to me a case study in hiding sociocultural problems with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_tradition and specifically some sort of perverse derivative of Confucianism. Korea has the same problem. It's a dead-end culture: China and Vietnam finally threw off the shackles in the 20th century at great cost, but Northeast Asia's sociocultural and political economies are apparently still largely running…

China's behavior in their Western provinces doesn't convince me they have really dropped their shackles last century

Uh, they just shackled someone else. This is depressingly common across human history.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#217
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watch NHK US a bit. Every night they have some show with a westerner riding some train line or riding a bike around and the landscape - which is pretty thin on people. Train lines manned by retired workers just to keep them going. Cyclist stops at at famous peach or strawberry orchards and there is some 90 year old on their knees weeding, kids are all in the city. Of course, it will all become industrial agro-farmi…

This sounds interesting, I'd love to watch it, could you link to one of those videos? I see lots of video results for NHK US, but a lot don't seem to be of the type that you're talking about.

YT has mostly clips, not the full shows. These are broadcast on HDTV and probably some cable markets.

Cycling shows: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/tv/cycle/ Train: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/tv/japanrailway/

The best series is Document 72 Hours: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/tv/72hours/

Some can be seen on demand, others, they’ll give a repeat date. These are fascinating, and be warned, they can swing from happy to gut wrenching. There’s one episode where they’re in a Home Center talking to kids about their projects and the next they’re talking to a guy about kitchen tiles. He talks about his wife always wanting a new kitchen, but he was always too busy... and now she’s dead. So he’s working on the kitchen in her memory.

It’s an introspection on a society that is fraying at the edges. The producers seem to be trying to communicate that. As Krugman says, if you want to know our future, look to Japan.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#218

>Under Katsube’s direction, Junko also enrolled in a program that helps shut-ins learn social skills by engaging in activities such as gardening, music, sports, and volunteering. America desperately needs this. I fear the rise of social media has caused more and more people to stay inside all day without interacting with any real humans. I've found Meetup to work very well for getting out of the house. I did find it…

>America desperately needs this So why the finger pointing like all the other commenters on HN? Go out and fix it! If this problem could be solved with some NOSQL, a Raspberry PI, and soldering, this forum would collectively rally behind the solution. But suddenly when a problem is deemed "social" our hands go in the air and it's not in my backyard? We're both techies, myself I'm pivoting my career into psychology 5…

The illusion of control and the ability to make a difference. It's why tech-minded people are notorious for trying to find clean technical solutions for messy social/political problems. It's comforting to feel you can reduce a vast societal problem to something you can tinker with in your living room and solve, and doing so also gives you a feeling of power and control.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#219
post #50

The American obsession over living or not with parents sounds almost pathological to me. Being jobless is issue. Long term inability to find partner is issue. But, if you don't have partner, what exactly is the reason for moving to live alone and why is focus specifically on "omg someone lives with parents"? I mean, multigenerational households were historical norm. It is not something super special that happened jus…

> But, if you don't have partner, what exactly is the reason for moving to live alone and why is focus specifically on "omg someone lives with parents"? Freedom, independence, personal autonomy. Even having good relations with my parents i prefer to have some distance and meet them on equal terms. And i do not know about 'American'. Preference for independent living seems common also here in Europe. > I mean, multige…

i prefer to have some distance and meet them on equal terms

This is an interesting observation. I know several cultures typically have children living with parents until they are married, but I've (anecdotally) noticed they tend to have very different relationships with their parents. Parents are much more involved in their children's lives and decisions they make, sometimes to the detriment of the children.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#220
post #113
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living with their parents is a symptom of not being able to afford living on their own.

I could afford to move out sooner, but it would be waste of money. Instead I gave parents something out of what I earned to cover what I eat and some. It just was not an issue in any way. What exactly would I gained if I moved elsewhere to live alone or with roommate?

What exactly would I gained if I moved elsewhere to live alone or with roommate?

Independence. A sense of self-reliance. Freedom to make your own decisions (good or bad) and learn from them. Freedom to live your life as you want, even if your parents disagree with it.

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