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Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

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Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#131

Post by mac01021 »

ginko wrote: post #81
oblio wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're awfully pessimistic and ignoring human creativity. And also human capacity for accepting compromises. When Malthus lived, there were about 1 billion people. It's hard to estimate, but I'd guess at most 10% of those were living non-miserable lives, so about 100 million people at most. Now the world middle class is 4 billion (40x) and the world upper class is probably around half a billion people (5x). I'm willi…

> You're awfully pessimistic and ignoring human creativity. And also human capacity for accepting compromises. Sure we might manage to live with 10 billion people on the planet, maybe even more. But why would we want to? I see no value in having more people on the planet. If anything it only reduces the value of each individual.

> I see no value in having more people on the planet. If anything it only reduces the value of each individual.

Does it? A group of people who just know how to raise and care for nerfs may not be worth anything to me. But add a bunch more people who know how to turn nerf wool into a high-quality textile and I start to value the nerf herders a lot more.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#132

Post by Animats »

hindsightbias wrote: post #116
roenxi wrote: post #2

The things that stand out to me about Japan: * 3rd largest economy. * 11th largest population (top 10 until recently, they basically tie with Mexico). * If you look at a table of countries by area, they are there. Even in the top half, thanks to places like Tuvalu. I think there is a very strong on-the-face-of-it argument that they just have too many people and not enough for them to do, economically speaking. If the…

I watch NHK US a bit. Every night they have some show with a westerner riding some train line or riding a bike around and the landscape - which is pretty thin on people. Train lines manned by retired workers just to keep them going. Cyclist stops at at famous peach or strawberry orchards and there is some 90 year old on their knees weeding, kids are all in the city. Of course, it will all become industrial agro-farmi…

Western Ireland has been like that since the Great Potato Famine in 1840. Beautiful country; I've ridden from Carna to Galway on horseback. Not good farmland, though.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#133

Post by paulcole »

asdasdasdas5453 wrote: post #42
brazzy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how economy works. There is no such thing in general as "too many people for the economy". "The economy" is the sum of goods and services produced and consumed. Everyone who lives consumes, and could easily consume more. The economy is generally limited by the ability to produce, and is generally limited by the number of working-age people to do the producing. Unemployment can be result of production being…

On HN when people discuss CS/privacy/programming the conversation is very thorough and interesting. When the discussion is about economics (the topic I have studied at uni) most comments are just plain wrong and show a complete ignorance about the topic. If one wants a counter argument to "too many people for the economy" one can start here : https://www.jstor.org/stable/2523702?seq=1 "Using data from the Current Pop…

> When the discussion is about economics (the topic I have studied at uni) most comments are just plain wrong and show a complete ignorance about the topic.

Imagine how little they know about the topics you haven’t studied.

The overall quality of comments here is the same as every other niche discussion forum. OK on the original topic. Pretty poor on everything else. The only advantage is that this place at least has some moderation.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#134

Post by dustingetz »

brazzy wrote: post #3
roenxi wrote: post #2

The things that stand out to me about Japan: * 3rd largest economy. * 11th largest population (top 10 until recently, they basically tie with Mexico). * If you look at a table of countries by area, they are there. Even in the top half, thanks to places like Tuvalu. I think there is a very strong on-the-face-of-it argument that they just have too many people and not enough for them to do, economically speaking. If the…

That's not how economy works. There is no such thing in general as "too many people for the economy". "The economy" is the sum of goods and services produced and consumed. Everyone who lives consumes, and could easily consume more. The economy is generally limited by the ability to produce, and is generally limited by the number of working-age people to do the producing. Unemployment can be result of production being…

Economies not only produce, they also take. For example, two free people could engage in free trade where one is holding a gun and the other voluntarily gives up their wallet. At scale we call that a Trade Agreement.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#135

Post by creata »

glouwbug wrote: post #128
Saint_Genet wrote: post #49

I went to university in the same city I grew up in, and made the mistake of living with my with my parents for the first two years. Let me tell you, you don't really become an adult until you move out.

The stresses of university already propels you into adult hood, and by living with your parents, the extra money you save on housing will set you up better for when you do move out. Living with your parents is not the definition of childhood. The definition of childhood is not realizing rent and food cost large sums of money, or that credit systems allow you to purchase rent and food without money, or that houses can…

What stresses do you have in mind?

(I'm a third-year right now and I've had nothing to stress about and nothing to do. I just read HN and developer blogs all day. I'd definitely hesitate to say I'm an adult.)

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#136

Post by andi999 »

cbzbc wrote: post #32
robjan wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When was the last time you used a fax machine? We maintain one specifically for communicating with Japanese companies.

It's possible this is for legislative reasons rather than anything else.

At least until a few years back only fax was considered 'in writing', so if like a lawyer wanted to submit an appeal to a court it either had to be a letter or a fax, no email. Now the government invented a new authenticated email system which supposedly is like 'in writing'

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#137

Post by saagarjha »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #127

I feel like the "Jobless and living with parents" pejorative is missing the mark. Jobless -- So what? If a country has figured out how to provide for its people w/o jobs, so what? For example if we had perfect AI-robot slaves we'd all be jobless. Would it be a problem? Maybe we should ask people why they want a job, maybe what they want to do doesnt require one? "Living with their parents" - Again, so what? Much of t…

That's because the scenario you've mentioned does not describe these households. The problem here is that there are adults who are partially or wholly supported by their parents in a house where they are not living with (nor was it designed for them to live with) a spouse or children.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#138

Post by andi999 »

latch wrote: post #89
gfxgirl wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Japan seems like the future? Maybe you should try Singapore or many of the big cities in China. Singapore's architecture looks far more in the future than anything in Japan at this point. So do many other more modern Asian cities. China has lots of poverty but the big cities are far further along in their switch to digital than Japan. It was a big deal during lockdown that so much of Japan's government run…

I've lived for multiple years in Singapore, Shanghai and Hong Kong. I think they're all great. For the sake of argument, I'll try to keep this about Tokyo, but a key observation of mine is that _all_ of Japan is like this. Objectively, Tokyo has the lowest pollution. Singapore is close, on average, but it can have awful week-long spikes. Tokyo has the lowest crime rate. Again, Singapore is basically the same, but it…

What I thought as the most striking difference between singapore and tokyo is the noise level feels much less in tokyo.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#139

Post by saagarjha »

dustingetz wrote: post #134
brazzy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how economy works. There is no such thing in general as "too many people for the economy". "The economy" is the sum of goods and services produced and consumed. Everyone who lives consumes, and could easily consume more. The economy is generally limited by the ability to produce, and is generally limited by the number of working-age people to do the producing. Unemployment can be result of production being…

Economies not only produce, they also take. For example, two free people could engage in free trade where one is holding a gun and the other voluntarily gives up their wallet. At scale we call that a Trade Agreement.

I'm unsure where you're going with this comment?

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#140

Post by maerF0x0 »

saagarjha wrote: post #137
maerF0x0 wrote: post #127

I feel like the "Jobless and living with parents" pejorative is missing the mark. Jobless -- So what? If a country has figured out how to provide for its people w/o jobs, so what? For example if we had perfect AI-robot slaves we'd all be jobless. Would it be a problem? Maybe we should ask people why they want a job, maybe what they want to do doesnt require one? "Living with their parents" - Again, so what? Much of t…

That's because the scenario you've mentioned does not describe these households. The problem here is that there are adults who are partially or wholly supported by their parents in a house where they are not living with (nor was it designed for them to live with) a spouse or children.

Again. We're failing to address the "so what?" What does this scenario represent that is _the actual problem_ of the matter?
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