Live data from Hacker News

Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

persuasion.community

21–30 of 394 posts

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#21
post #2

+1 from Australia. Our police kill more white people in custody per capita than black. I'm so over hearing about this bullshit here. The aboriginal people of Australia face real problems. The police isn't one of them. PS, keep your debates to yourselves too. Nobody cares and your media cutting Trump out of context is obvious and gross. You are literally becoming the fake news he always said you were.

Right, because there are 10x more aboriginal people in prison, that's not racist policing, that's just natural, is that what you're saying? “There is a sadly high level of Indigenous incarceration, I think it’s about 30% compared to 3% of the population,” Mitchell said, while interviewing the prime minister on Thursday. “But black deaths in custody, I mean, that’s, that’s a furphy, isn’t it? I mean, since the royal c…

No, that isn't racist at all.

Unfortunate, an injustice, a tragedy, a disaster, a systemic failure to integrate, yes. But racist? You're going to have to spell that one out for me. Aboriginal people just commit more crime. That isn't racist. Thats a symptom of a problem that predates most of us sitting here in our armchairs.

Talk about the real problem not the symptom, but whatever you do, don't start calling all white people racist for being nothing but white, all that does is alienate allies and make you look like a moron.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#22
There's a general sense in which all the social justice debates are always filtered through a US american lens, probably because of the media presence and because the people leading these debates are more active in global online communities.

But it does feel to me that often we frame the discourse in a way that is not useful for the specific problems we have in a specific country/region. There was some of the ACAB sentiment in Germany, but it quickly died down, since most people here (even left-wing people) generally trust the police - and while I'm sure there are still problems with underrepresentation, racial profiling, etc., it's nowhere on the scale that it appears to be on the US.

Also most countries simply don't have a recent history of slavery inside their own country like the US does; black people in Germany, for example, are almost all immigrants, which does create entirely different dynamics, and we have (had) a lot more immigration from different cultures, especially Turkish people. None of this means racism and xenophobia don't exist, but the discourse and potential solutions are not the same as in the US.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#23
I’m going to pull an unimaginable outside-of-the-box thinking for these times and propose something:

if people want to be doctors and not actors, let them do what they want to do.

I’m getting very tired of this US mania with nudging everyone to their preferred outputs.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#24

> All the individuals listed are American, but most of the people who have shared this on my timeline are British. In trying to express their solidarity with black Britons Aren't they trying to express their solidarity with black Americans? Just because it's happening outside of your country of residence, doesn't mean your compassion and empathy ends at the border.

Maybe because it was Britain that started all this mess with slavery and human trafficking, so Britons should indeed try to repent, or some day face the wrath of the whole world.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#25

The problem exists elsewhere too, because of the extremely widespread proliferation of American media - I see the Polish media taking american talking points about race, sexuality, religion, and just transplanting them wholesale into the Polish frame of reference as if they were equally important here - more often than not, they simply aren't. While racism is a problem in Poland, it's not a systematic racism like in…

>In general I lament the americanization of worldwide media, as if America is some kind of paragon of behaviour that everyone should emulate, and whatever social phenomenon is happening there it must be valid elsewhere. That's simply not true.

Well said! I would wager that this has become true in almost all countries and the effects are very insidious. Many real problems are often obfuscated and sidelined by the latest media export from the US which has no or at best marginal relevance in their local countries.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#26
>I have privilege as a White person because I can do all of these things without thinking twice about it … I can go jogging (#AmaudArbery). I can relax in the comfort of my own home (#BothemSean and #AtatianaJefferson). I can ask for help after being in a car crash (#Jonathan Ferrell and #RenishaMcBride). I can have a cellphone (#StephonClark). I can leave a party to get to safety (#JordanEdwards). I can play loud music (#JordanDavis). I can sell CDs (#AltonSterling). I can sleep (#AiyanaJones). I can walk from the corner store (#MikeBrown).

Who really says this?

Michael Brown could've had a regular visit to the store too. Instead, he chose to brazenly steal whatever he wanted and waltzed out despite the owner's protestations, strutted down the middle of the street with his stolen goods, wrestled a pistol from the attending police officer and discharged a shot in the struggle, and then - having made a little distance in his getaway - chose to turn around and charge at the officer even as he demanded cooperation.

Arbery could've had a pleasant jog too. Instead he chose to enter a stranger's house, flee when confronted by concerned neighbours, and very nearly wrestle away his firearm - and we all know how that would've ended - creating a life or death situation for the good Samaritan.

Why, if this is such a terrible phenomenon, must we lie to create martyrs? I don't even disagree with the scourge of brutality, especially having seen a 17 year old White boy shot and killed by police today in a welfare check. But why is it so common in the BLM movement to rally behind violent criminals on the receiving end of justifiable responses? I understand the black incentives for doing so, but why are Whites perpetuating these myths so enthusiastically? Why aren't they rioting for the White victims instead of (or at the very least, as well as) these black thugs?

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#27
post #4

I have a strong feeling (though no data to back it up) that this holds at least as much for debate and polarisation around feminism, gender equality, trans rights and LGBT(Q+) issues.

To some extent maybe, but in some sense LGBTQ issues are a bit more universal, because LGBTQ people exist and have grown up in every country (they just have different visibility and different rights etc.), whereas with racism/xenophobia every country has their own, different pattern of immigration, social inequalities, etc.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#28

The problem exists elsewhere too, because of the extremely widespread proliferation of American media - I see the Polish media taking american talking points about race, sexuality, religion, and just transplanting them wholesale into the Polish frame of reference as if they were equally important here - more often than not, they simply aren't. While racism is a problem in Poland, it's not a systematic racism like in…

I read that Poland has quite draconian drug laws. Such laws are what institutionalised racism is based on in the US - it comes from the premise that people from disadvantaged background will be more likely to be involved in drugs than other groups - this is of course not true, as person living on handouts is just as likely to take drugs as a rich person working in banking sector. It's what law enforcement is being focused on. I believe most western countries have this setup copied from the US and it is being used for oppression of groups that government deems undesirable. If cops were the "good guys", they would investigate why certain politicians push drug prohibition, who profits from it and why police is being used to support it. In my country if you are black, you are 6 times more likely to be harassed by law enforcement than if you were white, despite the drug use being at the same level.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#29

The problem exists elsewhere too, because of the extremely widespread proliferation of American media - I see the Polish media taking american talking points about race, sexuality, religion, and just transplanting them wholesale into the Polish frame of reference as if they were equally important here - more often than not, they simply aren't. While racism is a problem in Poland, it's not a systematic racism like in…

I don't think hating police is something you got from America. It's easy to see why anyone who doesn't fit in would hate most police forces in the world.

edit:

And now I'm being downvoted for saying this despite seeing ACAB sprayed across every imaginable surface by football fans my entire life.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#30

The problem exists elsewhere too, because of the extremely widespread proliferation of American media - I see the Polish media taking american talking points about race, sexuality, religion, and just transplanting them wholesale into the Polish frame of reference as if they were equally important here - more often than not, they simply aren't. While racism is a problem in Poland, it's not a systematic racism like in…

> While racism is a problem in Poland, it's not a systematic racism

I absolutely agree that transplanting US talking points wholesale into non-US frames of reference is something that's often done blindly and never really applies.

But the reason for this is that the issue is nuanced and has a lot of local context that needs consideration in its own right. It shouldn't be used as an excuse to dismiss the existence of systemic racism in your own country.

I think the above quoted line is such a pity as it truly undermines the rest of your otherwise excellent comment.

Post reply on HN