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Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

persuasion.community

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Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#11

Post by hombre_fatal »

Well, it makes sense that these views (which are generally unexamined by those who repeat them) are catching on outside of America for the same reason they catch on inside America: fixating on a simplistic target is alluring, people saying nonsensical things they don't really believe in order to avoid being called racist, etc.

You could make the same points inside America as well that the article makes, like examining Nigerian success in America.

Keep trotting the article out and you have a case for why these racial essentialist views shouldn't be imposed on anyone, not just brits. And certainly not on our children.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#12

Post by jacobush »

gambiting wrote: post #6

The problem exists elsewhere too, because of the extremely widespread proliferation of American media - I see the Polish media taking american talking points about race, sexuality, religion, and just transplanting them wholesale into the Polish frame of reference as if they were equally important here - more often than not, they simply aren't. While racism is a problem in Poland, it's not a systematic racism like in…

I know very little about Poland, but can't help but see a similarity between attitudes to the former serfs in Poland and the Irish in Great Britain.

This article touches on it: https://wachtyrz.eu/antisemitism-in-poland-each-pole-is-a-je...

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#13

Post by subsubsub »

Kednicma wrote: post #3

In addition to the entirety of the author's examples and experiences, we need to recall that the UK/British view of race is heavily influenced by the fact that skin color is not the only way in which folks in the UK experience racial discrimination. For centuries, the Scottish and Irish natives have been variously oppressed by the British, creating a racial context which is distinct from one wholly concerned with ski…

In the last 10 years have a lot of Scottish, Irish or Black people been murdered by UK police officers? 20 years? 30?

I'm sure you can think of a few examples, but the idea that the UK is equally as racist as the US is laughable.

To be clear: I am not saying that racism doesn't exist in the UK or that it isn't a problem - but the kind of false equivalence you put forward doesn't really advance the conversation.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#14

Post by lewispollard »

> All the individuals listed are American, but most of the people who have shared this on my timeline are British. In trying to express their solidarity with black Britons

Aren't they trying to express their solidarity with black Americans? Just because it's happening outside of your country of residence, doesn't mean your compassion and empathy ends at the border.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#15

Post by dghf »

Kednicma wrote: post #3

In addition to the entirety of the author's examples and experiences, we need to recall that the UK/British view of race is heavily influenced by the fact that skin color is not the only way in which folks in the UK experience racial discrimination. For centuries, the Scottish and Irish natives have been variously oppressed by the British, creating a racial context which is distinct from one wholly concerned with ski…

> we need to recall that the UK/British view of race is heavily influenced by the fact that skin color is not the only way in which folks in the UK experience racial discrimination.

But that's true of lots of places, including the US, antisemitism being the obvious example.

> For centuries, the Scottish and Irish natives have been variously oppressed by the British

I'm not sure it make sense to talk about Scots being oppressed by the British: Scots are British (though many are not particularly fond of the label). Did you mean to say English?

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#16

Post by [deleted] »

Kednicma wrote: post #3

In addition to the entirety of the author's examples and experiences, we need to recall that the UK/British view of race is heavily influenced by the fact that skin color is not the only way in which folks in the UK experience racial discrimination. For centuries, the Scottish and Irish natives have been variously oppressed by the British, creating a racial context which is distinct from one wholly concerned with ski…

[deleted]

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#17

Post by doctor_eval »

waheoo wrote: post #2

+1 from Australia. Our police kill more white people in custody per capita than black. I'm so over hearing about this bullshit here. The aboriginal people of Australia face real problems. The police isn't one of them. PS, keep your debates to yourselves too. Nobody cares and your media cutting Trump out of context is obvious and gross. You are literally becoming the fake news he always said you were.

Right, because there are 10x more aboriginal people in prison, that's not racist policing, that's just natural, is that what you're saying?

“There is a sadly high level of Indigenous incarceration, I think it’s about 30% compared to 3% of the population,” Mitchell said, while interviewing the prime minister on Thursday. “But black deaths in custody, I mean, that’s, that’s a furphy, isn’t it? I mean, since the royal commission, as I saw it, there have been fewer Indigenous people, per head of prison population, dying in custody than have white people?”

Morrison replied: “That is welcome news.”

However, the death rate per prisoner is only part of the story. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are 10 times more likely to die in custody than non-Indigenous people in Australia."

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jun/11/death...

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#18

Post by vergessenmir »

I'm not sure that american views are being imposed on US (I'm in the UK). Rather they are being adopted by us without criticism.

This makes conversation about race a confused jumbled incoherent mess. The bigger problem as I see it is more class-oriented than race centric. This should be a discussion on social mobility, which in my opinion is the best in the western world for minority communities. The race discourse in recent years has distracted from improving social mobility and hurting said communities more.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#19

Post by eptcyka »

Kednicma wrote: post #3

In addition to the entirety of the author's examples and experiences, we need to recall that the UK/British view of race is heavily influenced by the fact that skin color is not the only way in which folks in the UK experience racial discrimination. For centuries, the Scottish and Irish natives have been variously oppressed by the British, creating a racial context which is distinct from one wholly concerned with ski…

Would you mind stop overloading the word racist with more definitions? People can be nationalists or biased towards group identities with many different flavors. The underlying issue is that people get discriminated.

And besides, the Brits are a very mature ethnic identity, as such, they've had many centuries to come up with and nourish many different ways to discriminate - be it which village you come from, what school you attended, which football/sports club you affiliate with and which side of the street your pub resides on.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#20

Post by raverbashing »

Kednicma wrote: post #3

In addition to the entirety of the author's examples and experiences, we need to recall that the UK/British view of race is heavily influenced by the fact that skin color is not the only way in which folks in the UK experience racial discrimination. For centuries, the Scottish and Irish natives have been variously oppressed by the British, creating a racial context which is distinct from one wholly concerned with ski…

Exactly

This is why I think the debate on "whitelist" is more about PR and gaining internet points than anything else.

It can be argued that the term is racist in an specific historical context (no contest there) and that applied pretty much to the whole American continent, but let's not forget this kind of racism against the Irish was happening in both sides of the pond barely 100 years ago.

Associating colors with qualities is much, much older than 500 years.

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