My takeaways from the article: (1) VC is a casino for the rich and just like gamblers in casinos they have no idea what they are doing; (2) VCs have discovered that standard deviation shrinks like the square root of the sample size, however their understanding of stats seems to be just enough to run a monte-carlo simulation. Edit: the 3rd takeaway is advice to those who're considering to join a "startup" - if VC need…
For reliable excess returns, VC funds need 500 investments
21–30 of 68 posts
Re: For reliable excess returns, VC funds need 500 investments
#22(I'm a VC.) I'm skeptical of simulations like this one because they typically assume that every startup has the same statistical distribution of returns, and whether you pick 15 or 500 startups, each startup will have the same expected value and variance. But in practice it doesn't work like that. A full time VC might see 2000 pitch decks per year, meet with a few hundred of those companies, and end up investing in 5…
This was my initial thought too but it is tempered by the "deals we passed on" meme that is prevalent in VC circles. A VCs perception of the best companies is not based on reality. Like a gambler a VC has no idea whether their bet is the right one until much later. Sure you can de-risk it based on previous exits of founder etc but the reality is every VC probably passes on more great companies than they invest in.
Re: For reliable excess returns, VC funds need 500 investments
#23(I'm a VC.) I'm skeptical of simulations like this one because they typically assume that every startup has the same statistical distribution of returns, and whether you pick 15 or 500 startups, each startup will have the same expected value and variance. But in practice it doesn't work like that. A full time VC might see 2000 pitch decks per year, meet with a few hundred of those companies, and end up investing in 5…
Your explanation makes sense but is predicated on the VC being able to reliably rank these companies along expected returns. The perfect VC with perfect foresight might be able to pick just 1 investment and get the best returns from that. If returns are distributed on a power-law distribution (with the top performer returning a multiple of the second one and so on), then any deviation between the VC ranking and the o…
Yep! This is exactly how most funds operate. They invest in 30 or 40 companies over 3-4 years with the hope that 30-40 is enough to hit 1-2 big winners. The more confident a VC is in their picking skills, the more likely they are to invest in 15 or 25 companies in a fund, instead of 30+.
Re: For reliable excess returns, VC funds need 500 investments
#24(I'm a VC.) I'm skeptical of simulations like this one because they typically assume that every startup has the same statistical distribution of returns, and whether you pick 15 or 500 startups, each startup will have the same expected value and variance. But in practice it doesn't work like that. A full time VC might see 2000 pitch decks per year, meet with a few hundred of those companies, and end up investing in 5…
How do you decide the number of companies you invest in each year? Is this simply a function of the available capital or do you take future capital requirements of the companies you want to invest in into account? Let's say you only pick the top 0.25%, do you do any statistical analysis afterwards to see if this percentage gave the best ROI? Because I would assume that the top 1% at least gets funded by other VCs so…
One big constraint on the # of investments per year for a fund is the amount of time that the fund's partners have. Investors want to differentiate themselves with the help they can provide, and help takes time. As a result, a Series A investor/board member can manage 1-2 new investments per year, while a seed investor might be able to manage 3-8 new investments per year. So # of partners * ~5 investments per year is a good estimate of how many investments a hands on seed fund will do.
There are funds that invest in a lot more companies, but they tend to write small checks and are less hands on.
Re: For reliable excess returns, VC funds need 500 investments
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
This was my initial thought too but it is tempered by the "deals we passed on" meme that is prevalent in VC circles. A VCs perception of the best companies is not based on reality. Like a gambler a VC has no idea whether their bet is the right one until much later. Sure you can de-risk it based on previous exits of founder etc but the reality is every VC probably passes on more great companies than they invest in.
Agreed that VCs pass on way more good companies than they invest in. But if a VC invests in .5% of companies they look at, and there are 3 great companies in that .5% and 15 great companies in the other 99.5%, that suggests the VC's ranking is pretty good on a relative basis.
Re: For reliable excess returns, VC funds need 500 investments
#26Lol, what. No. Diversification is about correlation, not stock count. If you buy 40 different tech companies, you are not diversified. If you buy 3 etfs, you may be extremely well diversified.
> Analysis shows that this handful of successful deals is responsible for around one-fifth of the total cash returned by the industry. To reliably access the excess returns generated by one in 250 deals, a fund size of more than 500 investments is needed. Anything less risks having a portfolio without any mega-winners.
This only matters from the perspective of the fund manager, not an investor. From the perspective of the investor, investing in 1 big fund with 500 companies is equivalent to investing in 2 small funds with 250 companies.
> This counterintuitive result is further validated by a recent Kauffman Fellows study, which says that at the seed stage, “indexing beats 90 to 95 percent of investors picking deals.” In VC as a whole, it seems from Figure 2 that indexing beats 50 to 75 percent of investors picking deals, since indexing gives second-quartile result
When will people stop saying this trash? Indexing beats lots of things. Indexing beats cash, it beats bonds, it beats CDS. But all those things still exist. And they exist because they are uncorrelated asset classes, just like venture capital.
Diversifying your portfolio across uncorrelated asset classes elevates your long term CAGR assuming each returns stream has positive expectancy. This is why people invest in things that have lower expected returns than stocks - those things have less risk, and more importantly, uncorrelated risk. All of this is finance 101, and yet, publications calling themselves 'institutional investor' still don't seem to understand portfolio theory. I guess then they can't write clickbait articles about the great mystery of venture capital.
There is no mystery in VC. Investors diversify across VC funds. If you are thinking about investing in a VC firm, what you care about is uniqueness of the return stream. You want to be able to pick and choose manages who will themselves make diversified bets, so that your overall portfolio is diversified both across companies, and across perspectives. The system as constructed makes complete sense.
Re: For reliable excess returns, VC funds need 500 investments
#27Takes a lot of samples to converge to the mean of a fat tailed distribution.
Re: For reliable excess returns, VC funds need 500 investments
#28Takes a lot of samples to converge to the mean of a fat tailed distribution.
Re: For reliable excess returns, VC funds need 500 investments
#29My takeaways from the article: (1) VC is a casino for the rich and just like gamblers in casinos they have no idea what they are doing; (2) VCs have discovered that standard deviation shrinks like the square root of the sample size, however their understanding of stats seems to be just enough to run a monte-carlo simulation. Edit: the 3rd takeaway is advice to those who're considering to join a "startup" - if VC need…
> just like gamblers in casinos they have no idea what they are doing I follow all of the VCs on Twitter and it's very clear from their many, many tweets that they have a far superior intellect than the rest of us which allows them to divinely predict the future. And between them and their diverse network of other 40 year old, white males they have a rich, deep understand of the customer's wants and needs. And from t…
Re: For reliable excess returns, VC funds need 500 investments
#30My takeaways from the article: (1) VC is a casino for the rich and just like gamblers in casinos they have no idea what they are doing; (2) VCs have discovered that standard deviation shrinks like the square root of the sample size, however their understanding of stats seems to be just enough to run a monte-carlo simulation. Edit: the 3rd takeaway is advice to those who're considering to join a "startup" - if VC need…
> just like gamblers in casinos they have no idea what they are doing I follow all of the VCs on Twitter and it's very clear from their many, many tweets that they have a far superior intellect than the rest of us which allows them to divinely predict the future. And between them and their diverse network of other 40 year old, white males they have a rich, deep understand of the customer's wants and needs. And from t…
As a 40yo white male, I resent this generalization.
You should have qualified that further with "...living in the Bay Area".