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How To Be An Anti-Casteist

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Re: How To Be An Anti-Casteist

#151

Post by stealthbot »

clumsysmurf wrote: post #2

After an interview I attended at a fintech company, my Indian team lead straight out said she was trying to figure out the interviewee's cast. I was not familiar with the concept -- so my expression was mostly blank -- but she immediately followed up with "oh, I shouldn't have said that". I took no action, but wasn't sure what to do. After I learned more about it, I started to wonder where I was in this hierarchy. If…

yeah...this never happened. this isnt the language people who talk like this use

Re: How To Be An Anti-Casteist

#152

Post by drieddust »

mhuffman wrote: post #147
drieddust wrote: post #95

I have structured the post better and would appreciate if people can let me know what's wrong with this comment. India is struggling hard to get rid of this menace introduced during colonial era. We have reservation in education, government jobs, and politics to bring backwards at par. Almost 50% of seats in education and government jobs falls under this category. Seat are also reserved into politics. But the the iro…

> Irony of India is that caste as a system was introduced by European. The BBC seems to believe that the caste system is 3000 years old. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-35650616

BBC confuses caste with division of labour bases on skills.Entire article is based on superficial reading of Indian culture. Please read the comment from this very post.

https://news.ycombinator.com/upvoted?id=drieddust&comments=t

Re: How To Be An Anti-Casteist

#153

Post by starpilot »

dzhVAaT8A3Sg wrote: post #113
throwawaywg wrote: post #77

The strict social hierarchical dynamics of Indian culture is damaging to a lot of workplaces. 2nd generation Indians are great. The Indians that are from lower casts or from oppressed groups like Christians or Muslims are really great. But the higher castes are extremely insular, and treat anyone of any race poorly. This might be taboo, but every time I see a situation where there are multiple Indians in a reporting…

Some of what you are saying is true but I had a good experience with Indians maybe because I knew how to react to it. But Indians are extremely diverse. My wife is Brahmin, and I am white, and I've been around Brahmins as a result. I have found Brahmins who come to the US often are not particularly religious but still practice some of old customs. They complain about a lot of Brahmin hate in India and like escaping f…

> Indians have a culture of going the extra mile at work.

lol fuck off. Indian work culture is toxic, nothing more. Most Indians in America think so.

Re: How To Be An Anti-Casteist

#154

Post by skissane »

lowercasteguy wrote: post #116
throwawaywg wrote: post #77

The strict social hierarchical dynamics of Indian culture is damaging to a lot of workplaces. 2nd generation Indians are great. The Indians that are from lower casts or from oppressed groups like Christians or Muslims are really great. But the higher castes are extremely insular, and treat anyone of any race poorly. This might be taboo, but every time I see a situation where there are multiple Indians in a reporting…

The solution to the caste system in India is actually very simple. Religious conversion. Ambedkar was a visionary who himself converted out of Hindu religion and gave up his 'caste'. Caste is essentially the same as feudalism, but unlike other regions of the world where feudalism was a societal concept, it became a religious one in India. Buddhism for example is an Indian religion but Buddha was explicitly against th…

> Abrahamic religions are also devoid of the concept of caste.

While the Indian concept of "caste" (varna/jati/etc) isn't a native part of Christianity, Christians have varied in their attitude to it – some Christians have insisted that the caste system is incompatible with Christianity and that in becoming a Christian you have to give up your caste identity; other Christians have been accepting of the caste system, leading to the establishment of Christian castes such as the "Roman Catholic Brahmins" or "Bammons" – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Brahmin

Likewise, regarding Islam, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian...

Re: How To Be An Anti-Casteist

#155

Post by topkai22 »

_pd19 wrote: post #47
viraptor wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've witnessed that and it works. You don't have to argue or make a big issue in some way. Just state that X is an equal person deserving same respect as all of you. Nobody's likely to call you out or complain about that statement.

I think it's a little early to say "it works." It causes them to display less outward prejudice when discussing the hiring process with others.

Even if it doesn’t entirely “work” for that one person it is still important to address the culture issue immediately and publicly, because it sets norms for everyone else in the room. Even if you are the only other one in the room. Perhaps especially if you are the only other one in the room.

Re: How To Be An Anti-Casteist

#156

Post by higerordermap »

gautamdivgi wrote: post #120
clumsysmurf wrote: post #2

After an interview I attended at a fintech company, my Indian team lead straight out said she was trying to figure out the interviewee's cast. I was not familiar with the concept -- so my expression was mostly blank -- but she immediately followed up with "oh, I shouldn't have said that". I took no action, but wasn't sure what to do. After I learned more about it, I started to wonder where I was in this hierarchy. If…

fwiw - she shouldn't have said that or even thought that way. But I'm not sure why she was "trying to figure out his caste". The last name is a dead giveaway most of the times. Quite a few Indian last names and their castes are documented in wikipedia.

In South India people don't always use surnames. Rather it is in format or wise versa.

Re: How To Be An Anti-Casteist

#157

Post by whimsicalism »

andreilys wrote: post #150
glitcher wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So are you just saying it's already common, or that you are in support of social status profiling?

Yes it’s already common. Look at the concentration and over representation of Ivy League schools in industries like finance. It’s very unlikely those places would even bother interviewing someone with low social status (I.e. poor and grew up on food stamps). I don’t think it’s great that this happens, it insulates elites from those with working class backgrounds and accelerates inequality.

> Ivy League schools in industries like finance

This also has to do with the fact that, in consulting and finance, it is the perception of intelligence by the customer that is much more important than the actual intelligence. Managers would rather hire the team of consultants from the Ivy League and rich people would rather pay the management fees for the Ivy League team to manage their money.

In industries that are more directly merit based and less "customer perception" based, you don't have as large of an over-representation.

Re: How To Be An Anti-Casteist

#158

Post by paloaltokid »

drieddust wrote: post #95

I have structured the post better and would appreciate if people can let me know what's wrong with this comment. India is struggling hard to get rid of this menace introduced during colonial era. We have reservation in education, government jobs, and politics to bring backwards at par. Almost 50% of seats in education and government jobs falls under this category. Seat are also reserved into politics. But the the iro…

> I would appreciate if people can let me know what's wrong with this comment.

I didn't downvote your comment but I will venture a guess.

It sounds like you are condoning and/or possibly endorsing the caste system. If you say "all mature societies need division of labor" does that mean you believe that everybody should be pigeonholed into a particular occupation forever?

It seems like there is a bigger point you are trying to makie but you need to write a little more to make it clear. Some of your spelling and formatting could be improved as well. It is strange but you can make a really excellent point but if it is poorly formatted or you have spelling mistakes, people will downvote you.

Re: How To Be An Anti-Casteist

#159

Post by hairband »

Quoting from the article:

> Years ago, these invitations to go swimming with American friends and neighbors were a sign of acceptance. But now the same invitations for his fellow Indians felt like a trap to out him as a Dalit.

Not trying to defend casteism or anything, and Maybe I understood it wrong, but this makes it seem like if Indian guys are inviting him for swim then it must be ascertain his caste, but if Americans do it then its a sign of friendship. This makes it seem like its more in his head.

Re: How To Be An Anti-Casteist

#160

Post by whimsicalism »

topkai22 wrote: post #155
_pd19 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a little early to say "it works." It causes them to display less outward prejudice when discussing the hiring process with others.

Even if it doesn’t entirely “work” for that one person it is still important to address the culture issue immediately and publicly, because it sets norms for everyone else in the room. Even if you are the only other one in the room. Perhaps especially if you are the only other one in the room.

Absolutely, but I don't think it diminishes the necessity of the HR report.
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