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Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

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Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#971

Post by beerbajay »

coddle-hark wrote: post #581
toomanybeersies wrote: post #426

I've been around the block enough times to realise that any tech job inevitably has morally murky dimensions. It's never in regards the big overarching social issues like racial politics though. It's the advertising companies you work with, the casinos and bookmakers (which is the only time I've made a moral stand at work), or people losing jobs that are replaced by automation.

Not participating in morally abhorrent behaviour is admirable and really important. The problem, I think, is when people put it on themselves to police other’s behaviour.

What about other people's abhorrent behavior?

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#973

Post by SecretRepub2 »

jiscariot wrote: post #494
moduspol wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the real goal is to foist problematic employees onto competitors.

I'm not too familiar with SV culture, but wouldn't an employee exit from Coinbase for the next few months also act as a signal to future employers? Since google has already been bitten from both sides with their "bring your entire self to work" culture, you'd think they'd want to avoid ex-Coinbasers. Maybe I'm reading too much in to this.

There's a lot of woke companies out there.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#974

Post by SecretRepub2 »

nullc wrote: post #95
kkhire wrote: post #65

I’ve never worked in the Bay Area, so could just be OOL but I’m genuinely surprised that this is such a big deal, or that this blog post got so much praise. Never discussed politics at any of the companies I’ve worked for, we were always too busy with...work!

Coming from the east coast (and maybe a little from an earlier era) I also find the attitude on this stuff a little mystifying. "In my day" -- it was just poor form to bring up that kind of stuff at work. If you did so at all, you usually tried to avoid being "that person". You don't get to choose each person you work with, so it pays if everyone puts in a bit of extra effort to not give anyone else a hard time. I th…

I think a big factor is fewer people starting families. Single adults tend to latch onto radical politics as a source of meaning

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#975

Post by zbentley »

MFLoon wrote: post #966
erichocean wrote: post #957

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where every actor must take a position on every issue Not taking a position is, by default, choosing to uphold the status quo. When the status quo is unjust, it's choosing to uphold injustice. That's fine, just own up to it. Hiding behind "I'm apolitical" when you're a loyal foot soldier for the current system isn't a good look.

I used to be baffled at the use of "SJW" as a pejorative, but comments like this reveal it's aptness to me. It's not the fighting for justice that's negative, it's the adoption of the warrior mentality. Which, ironically, is a perfect reflection of the problem with American policing - viewing the world as a battlefield and anyone not with you as against you. There are no non-combatants in the streets, just as there a…

The "soldier" metaphor was unfortunate, but I think the underlying thesis is well taken.

We live in a deeply interconnected world. Most actions, even studied inaction/uninvolvedness, have repercussions on lots of other people--complex repercussions that have to do with privilege and affluence and race and gender and all those other hot-button issues that people get up in arms about. We call that "political".

Now, nobody's making you be an activist (someone who puts a ton of time towards advancing one of those causes). Nobody's making you care. You're free to do whatever you want. But choosing not to care doesn't make the repercussions of your choices any less political.

It weirds me out when people get prickly in response to that pointing out that basic reality, because it sounds very much like "I don't want to acknowledge that my actions have wide reaching consequences."

What you should/shouldn't do about that reality is a separate question: opinions range from "don't tell anyone what to do" to "sell all your belongings in service to $cause right now". But accepting that basically everything we do in an interdependent society is not just tangentially but fundamentally political (yes, even refraining from discussing political topics at work) isn't a super contentious or extreme claim.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#976

Post by SecretRepub2 »

eli wrote: post #192
Zenbit_UX wrote: post #120

Why is a company wanting to be apolitical is controversial? That should be the default, is this an American thing like how masks and healthcare are controversial? I would expect a government to have proper separation from church and state, so why is it weird to want a company to separate politics and mission? I can't see any good coming from being in a work environment where the company supports a political issue I'm…

Forbidding debate is taking an implicit stance in favor of the status quo.

This reminds me of the screaming protestors who surrounded diners in restaurants and demand that they raise a fist and say "Black Lives Matters"

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#977

Post by zbentley »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #963
erichocean wrote: post #957

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where every actor must take a position on every issue Not taking a position is, by default, choosing to uphold the status quo. When the status quo is unjust, it's choosing to uphold injustice. That's fine, just own up to it. Hiding behind "I'm apolitical" when you're a loyal foot soldier for the current system isn't a good look.

This line of reasoning falls over with even the slightest level of scrutiny. It's just a way of bullying people into adopting the political views that you want them to, and it shouldn't be tolerated in a society that values democratic freedoms. An uncountable number of injustices take place across the world every day, and any individual person will be playing no part in, and have no influence over a vast majority of…

> describing something as an injustice in the first place is quintessentially an opinion

Unless you mean a critique of the notion of justice in general, that seems to be a bit reductive. Accusations of "injustice" in most societies typically don't stand on their own; they're accompanied by evidence, which is debated, and an ethical stance, which is also sometimes debated. But injustice isn't some Hitlerian discussion-ender; it's an idea and a value set, always selectively applied, just like "fairness", "equality", "utilitarianism", or whatever. It's not like invoking the devil in church.

I'm not GP. I've no clue whether they were being honest in their statements or not, or how they'd choose to back them up, but: at what point is an accusation of injustice not an "opinion", or a "toxic influence on society"? When one person believes it? Ten? Some percentage of society? Some magistrate? When you agree with it? There's no general answer to that question, so saying "they said it was unjust, that means that they're dehumanizing my position and making me into the enemy!" is somewhat silly.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#978

Post by awerawerawrjhui »

Gormisdomai wrote: post #115
mountainb wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not true that "LGBT Rights" are value-free. Promoting LGBT rights also alienates members of the largest religious groups in the world, including those that are majority-non-European like Islam and Catholicism. Being a practicing L, G, B, or T or pro any of them is against sharia, the Catechism, and against the rules of many major Protestant sects like Mormons. Gay marriage is expressly against the rules of most…

Your high level point about universal tolerance stands - but you might like to challenge some of your object level assumptions about world religions and LGBT. Iranian theocratic leadership for example officially does not think that being trans is against sharia and the nation carries out more gender reassignment surgeries than any country except Thailand (not that their treatment of trans people is perfect by any mea…

Iran subsidises gender reassignment surgeries because homosexuality in Iran is a capital crime. Transitioning is that country's form of conversion therapy; hardly progressive.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#979

Post by awerawerawrjhui »

mountainb wrote: post #103
Closi wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who works for a mostly apolitical organization - it depends on the issue. For example, the company refuses to take a stance on: - Brexit (even though it will negatively impact them) - Elections or any vote (even though again, this impacts them) But for example actively campaigns on: - Agricultural issues (It's in the food industry) The company VERY strongly supports LGBT rights and minority rights, and wil…

It's not true that "LGBT Rights" are value-free. Promoting LGBT rights also alienates members of the largest religious groups in the world, including those that are majority-non-European like Islam and Catholicism. Being a practicing L, G, B, or T or pro any of them is against sharia, the Catechism, and against the rules of many major Protestant sects like Mormons. Gay marriage is expressly against the rules of most…

Not to mention that "LGBT" rights aren't a single, unified campaign and increasingly are in conflict with each other. Many, many gays and lesbians feel threatened by modern transgender ideology, and not without good reason. "LGBT" is an increasingly shaky alliance.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#980

Post by tdeck »

awb wrote: post #686
koheripbal wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot of value in removing political activists from your company, and so it's worth paying them to leave. Aside from the combative toxic environment they generate, they are also often the source of disgruntled rogue employees that will generally behave improperly, misrepresent coworkers, leak documents, raise alarms about operations they don't understand, and generally draw the company into litigation. In a…

You could reasonably extend this to your friends and neighbors as well. Growing up, politics was private outside of the family dinner table. Any dedication to an injustice or a good cause was done through donating or volunteering. No yard signs, no shouting, no blaming. I understand that dramatic actions bring attention, but I just hope that we can start focusing more on doing our own part and leading by example rath…

I'm curious what era this was. Pre civil rights movement?
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