USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess • Hacker News Board

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#561

Post by nl » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 10:38 PM UTC

broknbottle wrote: post #461

bluGill wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I purchase a device with a Universal charger port and a universal charger. If the device doesn't work with any other universal charger that is their problem. Likewise if I use their charger on something else and it breaks my other device that is their problem. The purpose of universal is everything works with everything. whoever breaks that is at fault and should pay the price. If Nintendo has used some other por…

Nintendo clearly states on Switch specs page that the Switch dock has a "AC adapter port". Just because it uses a connector that physically looks like USB Type-C does not mean it's actually a USB type C port.

It says on the website USB-C for charging.

https://www.nintendo.com/switch/tech-specs/

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#562

Post by Tade0 » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 10:38 PM UTC

My experience with USB-C so far has been great, barring two things:

If I plug my phone to my laptop when the latter is on battery power it's basically a coin toss which will be charging which.

It's not noticeably more durable than micro USB. The jump isn't as great as from e.g. Mini USB, which was a nightmare in this regard.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#563

Post by nl » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 10:39 PM UTC

dlubarov wrote: post #512

broknbottle wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nintendo clearly states on Switch specs page that the Switch dock has a "AC adapter port". Just because it uses a connector that physically looks like USB Type-C does not mean it's actually a USB type C port.

While they don't explicitly claim USB-C compatibility, creating a USB-C shaped port seems like a pretty clear representation that the dock is USB-C compatible.

They claim it's USB-C on the website: https://www.nintendo.com/switch/tech-specs/

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#564

Post by inopinatus » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 10:43 PM UTC

Latty wrote: post #454

buzzerbetrayed wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you not read the article? Because your response doesn’t address any of the issues brought up in the article. Mainly that all the usb-c cables you sprinkle across your house might not have the same functionality. And if you plug your switch in to one it might charge it, while another will not.

Those problems are hardly unique to USB-C. With Micro-USB I had charging cables that didn't have data lines in them, Kindle power adaptors that didn't offer enough output for my phone to charge off, and non-standard devices that didn't follow the spec and only worked with certain stuff. In my experience, it works well enough I've actively only been buying USB-C stuff where it is at all possible to do so for a while n…

This is not much harder the the issue of 8P8C connectors, which some (incorrectly) call RJ45.

Depending on cable configuration, pinout, wall plate and structured wiring system, that 8P8C might be usable (or not) for multiple different types of data networking, from the assorted ethernet speeds (some of which may successfully autonegotiate, but not all) to E1 to token ring, or for a serial console, or delivering power and audio to a remote speaker, or hdmi-over-utp, or even -48V telephony, and let's not even get started on the only-subtly-different but actually incompatible RJ45S connector, or people sticking RJ11 plugs in 8P8C ports.

And yet the world has coped with this proliferation.

I have experienced none of the issues described in the article despite possessing 30+ USB Type-C devices. The article above simply comes across as an overwhelming refusal to take any personal responsibility for technical purchasing choices.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#565

Post by Khaine » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 10:48 PM UTC

floatingatoll wrote: post #235

mikepurvis wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't actually own a Switch, but my partner and I both charge our laptops (mine a Dell XPS, hers a MacBook) from the same after-market USB-C charging bricks. I don't love that it's like this, but basically the product page just lists every known-to-work device, including Nintendo Switch: https://www.amazon.ca/Charger-Adapter-Replacement-Thinkpad-M... Now, I'm a cheapskate, so most of my electronics are older device…

Word of warning, for those reading this far: The Switch and Switch Dock are not USB-C devices. That you’re able to plug in a USB-C charger or USB-C device and see it supposedly work just means that you haven’t yet encountered the scenario(s) that can electronically damage the Switch. Nintendo’s warranty does not cover this damage when it occurs, requiring a full-cost repair or replacement as you connected unlicensed…

I thought it wasn't USB compliant, based on this google plus post[1] and hacker news discussion [2]

If it is true that third party charging devices is fine, then that is great news.

[1] https://plus.google.com/102612254593917101378/posts/2CUPZ5yV...

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16706803

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#566

Post by hobofan » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 10:50 PM UTC

aspaceman wrote: post #549

hobofan wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are there multiple people here in the thread that say that the port on the Switch is not a USB-C port, when it says so in the official specs _right on their website_? https://www.nintendo.com/switch/tech-specs

The port is USB-C but the power and data follow a custom protocol.

I would assume that you are not allowed to call it USB-C if you don't pass the USB compliance process, which I would hope ensures that the protocol is implemented according to standard.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#567

Post by inopinatus » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 10:50 PM UTC

pwinnski wrote: post #290

jeremymcanally wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did read it, and for my use cases, I don't have issues. I understand others' use cases may not match mine, but this situation seems basically like any other connectivity standard in the history of technology. Except this time, the universality for what most people use it for has actually managed to catch on. :)

"Universality" that involves many people finding that cables that look identical don't actually work the same way. Interesting definition there. Universality of physical plug, I guess?

Buy shitty products, get shitty outcomes. This is not the fault of the connector standard.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#568

Post by willis936 » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 10:51 PM UTC

vr46 wrote: post #23

jeremymcanally wrote: post #4

Really? I find it to be a game changer for me. The fact that my laptop, Switch, iPad, and several other devices can all share a charge has made my life much easier. I can just sprinkle a few of them throughout the house and never be without power. Before it was always a hunt to find a cable, or I had to be in [x] room to charge [y] device because that's where the charger lived. Plus, I can charge my MacBook on either…

Aha - you may find that your Switch CANNOT in fact share a charge - Nintendo's port is not necessarily safe to use with anything but its supplied charger. And I've just learned this lesson with a $60 bill from Nintendo repair after the port went pop and couldn't charge the device. I only have reputable chargers in the house from Apple and one from Anker aside from the Nintendo's own. All my apple kit works fine off t…

I was livid with Nintendo when the Switch launched. It took decades of hard work to get the interconnect industry to play nice with common standards. It’s a fragile, prosperous peace. It doesn’t take much to destroy it. Nintendo’s careless actions threaten a lot more than a few toys.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#569

Post by willis936 » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 10:55 PM UTC

numpad0 wrote: post #438

Chris2048 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a purposefully-engineered flaw to reduce confidence in 3rd party chargers?

More like Gen 1 Switch hardware was designed too early in USB-C era. It’ll probably be fixed in future generations but Nintendo decided not to make design changes for Gen 1 and Gen 2 Switch to fully comply with USB-C PD specs.

The timeline here doesn’t jive. The Pixel C came out in 2015 with a USB-C port using the same SoC as the Switch (2017). Nintendo’s non-compliance is intentional.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#570

Post by FractalParadigm » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 10:58 PM UTC

The article misses my biggest gripe with USB-C - cables can come in both 2.0 and 3.0 in addition to Thunderbolt, with absolutely no way to distinguish the link speed by looking at the cable itself. I have 10 or so USB-C cables littered about the house in different lengths, I had to mark the only two that support 3.0 speeds.

It also doesn't mention the issues we see in USB-A to USB-C cables, where cheaper cables often 'forget' the pullup resistor required to prevent device damage[0].

[0]: https://www.howtogeek.com/240777/watch-out-how-to-buy-a-usb-... - Does anyone know if this is still an issue? I haven't heard anything further in a couple years but I would assume it still rings true.