My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison • Hacker News Board

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#451

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 9:31 PM UTC

arolihas wrote: post #420

vector_spaces wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to disparage this sentiment, but > Ours is one continual struggle against a degradation sought to be inflicted upon us by the Europeans, who desire to degrade us to the level of the raw Kaffir whose occupation is hunting, and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with and, then, pass his life in indolence and nakedness. - Gandhi (Kaffir was a slur used against black South Afri…

What was the purpose of sharing that quote then, if not to disparage the sentiment? To disparage whoever said it? Do you know when that quote was made, as Gandhi’s views (which were a product of his time and upbringing) evolved over the span of his life?

[deleted]

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#452

Post by nicoburns » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 9:31 PM UTC

romwell wrote: post #442

BurningFrog wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would think any crime inflicting bodily harm is relevant, as long as you work near people with bodies.

What you said implies that any person that has committed a violent crime remains a danger to other people, forever - and should also be punished, forever. This is what the American justice system is like. In a saner world, (only) people who are a danger to others would be separated from the society, and being set free would be and indication that you are no longer a danger. In the US, being released from prison signa…

It may be that it's not a criteria for not hiring them, but never-the-less something you want to keep an eye one once you do. And perhaps something you want to ask them about at interview.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#453

Post by Barrin92 » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 9:33 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #344

noobermin wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans have been completely conditioned into accepting all sorts of trouble while maintaining the idea of freedom in contradiction to that.

Being free to background check someone you're going to work with, work for, or hire is in fact an entirely correct aspect of being free broadly. The US position on that is correct, not contradictory. Restriction on action which does not involve using violence against others is restricting freedom in any proper liberal model of the word. That goes for everything from prostitution to drug use, and it absolutely include…

> It's nothing more than intellectual infantilism

No, infantilism is being unable to contextualise freedom and see it in its proper communal and social context. Handing private entities the ability to engage in surveillance against their fellow citizens isn't freedom, it's eroding the very basis of freedom. It's creating a private panopticon in which everyone is constantly conditioned to behave and comply. That is actually what modern American society is by the way, literally infantilized. Students are being policed by their universities, children by theire hyper-religious parents, minorities by their neighbours ring doorbells, and workers by their companies, no state required.

The proper way to understand the liberal tradition and apply it today is to understand that the liberal tradition is concerned with threats to individual freedom, period. 200 years ago, in early capitalist times, citizens were equal and the state was powerful. Today private power and surveillance is just as dangerous, if not more dangerous, than anything the American government can come up with.

The liberal tradition applied today, by the spirit rather than the letter of the law and its proper intent, must be concerned with stopping citizens and private firms from controlling each others lives, rather than be obsessed with some 18th century homesteading logic or 'voluntary contracts'.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#454

Post by aero142 » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 9:34 PM UTC

mazlix wrote: post #444

aero142 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I'm more worried about what 13 years in prison did to the person than the original crime. We don't know what the original crime was so it is hard to say in this case. Perhaps they have some deep, anti-social personality flaw and I wouldn't want to sit next to them. I would be concerned about sitting next to an innocent person who spent 13 years in prison, though. For me, that is a root issue. How many crimi…

Just trying to clarify here: you’re saying if someone was exonerated of a violent crime due to newer, overwhelming forensic evidence but had already spent 13years. You’d feel more comfortable working with the actual criminal than the innocent person who spent 13 years in prison?

I'm not saying I would be more concerned. I'm saying that 13 years in prison might cause problems by itself. This is a criticism of prison, not the person.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#455

Post by eeZah7Ux » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 9:34 PM UTC

tssva wrote: post #430

jorblumesea wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many Americans talk about "freedom" but their definition is largely narrow and specific to political issues they feel strongly about. The same people who talk about "small government" simultaneously use the federal government to bludgeon states into submissions on issues such as legalized marijuana. It's usually something that's used to justify a specific political position and not an overall sentiment of allowing ac…

There is no such thing as actual freedom. You exercising your "freedom" almost always means imposing upon someone else's. In your example wouldn't someone having to provide a service to a LGBTQ person even though it is against their religious beliefs be a violation of their freedom of religion just as much as refusing to provide them service would be a violation of the LGBTQ person's freedom? "Freedom" is used a lot…

> In your example wouldn't ... be a violation of their freedom of religion

Not at all, that's not what freedom of religion is.

I can practice a Mayan or Inca religion by myself - that's freedom of religion - but I cannot allow it to affect other people's life e.g. by organizing human sacrifices.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#456

Post by keithnz » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 9:35 PM UTC

tssva wrote: post #430

jorblumesea wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many Americans talk about "freedom" but their definition is largely narrow and specific to political issues they feel strongly about. The same people who talk about "small government" simultaneously use the federal government to bludgeon states into submissions on issues such as legalized marijuana. It's usually something that's used to justify a specific political position and not an overall sentiment of allowing ac…

There is no such thing as actual freedom. You exercising your "freedom" almost always means imposing upon someone else's. In your example wouldn't someone having to provide a service to a LGBTQ person even though it is against their religious beliefs be a violation of their freedom of religion just as much as refusing to provide them service would be a violation of the LGBTQ person's freedom? "Freedom" is used a lot…

that's party of the problem, that view of freedom, that's more about individual choice. It often flys in the face of achieving greater freedoms through rules and social cooperation. People are familiar with the concept but often don't think about it, like driving on the road, if people were allowed individual choice about how they want to drive on roads it would be a nightmare to drive on the roads, but luckily, people aren't "free" to choose which side of the road to drive on ,etc, there are a bunch of rules, and because the vast majority follow these "restrictions" a greater freedom is achieved, you can get from A to B in relatively short time periods in relative safety. Cooperative freedoms tend to give some of the greatest actual freedoms, however, they need to be underpinned and balanced with a set of core individual rights. Working out that balance is... tricky.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#457

Post by carrolldunham » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 9:35 PM UTC

>here's how she got the job....I reached out to a friend

ok. close tab

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#458

Post by dang » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 9:37 PM UTC

carrolldunham wrote: post #457

>here's how she got the job....I reached out to a friend ok. close tab

Could you please stop posting unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments to HN? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly, and we're hoping for a different sort of conversation here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#459

Post by beachy » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 9:40 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #110

koiz wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA, background checks are often just part of the process. There's an entire industry built around providing the service.

Readers from other countries, what is it like there? I remember when I lived in Australia, my friends told me that many crimes do not show up on background checks after 5 years. Also in Australia, the sex offender registry is confidential, and can only be checked for very specific things (jobs involving children, certain types of housing, etc.) In the US, there are ways of getting records expunged for some crimes, bu…

In New Zealand, your criminal record consists of solely those crimes you have been convicted of in court, and is automatically clean slated if you have gone >7 years without an offence (unless you have been convicted of a serious crime in which case it's on your record for life). In fact it is an offence for most employers to ask for your full (non-clean-slated record.

We also have a system known as police vetting, which is a far more intrusive background check, and includes not just actual convictions but also mere encounters with the police, warnings, etc. Police vetting can only be requested for roles that involve working with vulnerable adults or children.

In all cases the candidate must (a) consent, and (b) be supplied with a copy of the results. Overall I think this is a good system though there are some areas for improvement.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#460

Post by 737maxtw » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 9:41 PM UTC

samatman wrote: post #418

sokoloff wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fairly convinced that the fact that marijuana is illegal (federally) and alcohol/tobacco are legal without a prescription has more to do with the populations who typically used them than with any medical or scientific basis on dangerousness. https://www.businessinsider.com/racist-origins-marijuana-pro...

Sure, and that's another thing that wouldn't show up in statistics directly. Although it's important to note that alcohol was illegal, and tobacco is becoming increasingly low-status and accordingly restricted. The end of Prohibition meant that the enforcement apparatus for it needed something new to do. I believe this was another contributing factor to continuing the broken logic of Prohibition with new substances.

That's... actually pretty interesting concept to consider.

Sometimes I do wonder how much better we could all get along if some substances had relaxed or dropped restrictions.

When you think about it, there's the mental toll on users about public disapproval amplified by the legal status. On top of that, the divide on the non user side about someone being a "lawbreaker".

Just seems to cause a lot of division. On top of the illegality of harder drugs leading to the rise of cartels and gangs.

Just thinking out loud. What if the US said 'screw it', try making everything legal for 5-10 years, produce what it can locally, and just see what happens. The hope with this idea is that one could starve out the cartels while perhaps providing a path to rehabilitation.

All of that said, I am still a believer in the Rat Park experiment. If we solved some of our more real problems people perhaps wouldn't need to turn to such substances, as examples by the reports of drug use increasing under lockdown conditions. Reality seems to match the experiment. The thing about that experiment, they found if the rat's other needs were met (food, shelter, socialization) they actually would start to prefer normal water to drugged water again.

Hmmmmm