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USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

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Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#461

Post by broknbottle »

bluGill wrote: post #396
TAForObvReasons wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You purchase the switch with a provided charger. If that charger caused issues, then there's potentially a suit. It's not obvious that you'd say the same thing if they used a proprietary port like what the 3DS uses.

No, I purchase a device with a Universal charger port and a universal charger. If the device doesn't work with any other universal charger that is their problem. Likewise if I use their charger on something else and it breaks my other device that is their problem. The purpose of universal is everything works with everything. whoever breaks that is at fault and should pay the price. If Nintendo has used some other por…

Nintendo clearly states on Switch specs page that the Switch dock has a "AC adapter port". Just because it uses a connector that physically looks like USB Type-C does not mean it's actually a USB type C port.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#462

Post by dghughes »

Dell laptops at my old job used a WD15 dock for peripherals and power. All over a frail USB-C connector that often failed, or the dock failed. I don't know what to fault Dell's design or USB-C or both but it made for busy days. But a three inch long connector sticking out from the side of a laptop is a lever and bound to go crunch!

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#463

Post by sbierwagen »

crote wrote: post #443
sbierwagen wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An external GPU box would work for you, since the offboard GPU would have a full-bandwidth link to the monitor. Depending on which GPU you put in it, though, it would probably be cheaper to buy a new monitor.

That would absolutely be a (albeit very expensive) solution, I didn't even think of that! But that would require Thunderbolt support, which is still a bit rare. And I don't think that would support USB at the same time, right?

Looks like I was misremembering the details of this LTT video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2VxwFEA8xM

They use a Thunderbolt hub (CalDigit TS3 Plus) to a Thunderbolt GPU box. (Razer core X) A single cable goes to the hub, GPU box and all your USB peripherals plug into the hub. The hub itself claims it can run a DP 1.2 monitor, so you could skip the GPU box, if you don't need graphics performance.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#464

Post by martinve »

floatingatoll wrote: post #235
mikepurvis wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't actually own a Switch, but my partner and I both charge our laptops (mine a Dell XPS, hers a MacBook) from the same after-market USB-C charging bricks. I don't love that it's like this, but basically the product page just lists every known-to-work device, including Nintendo Switch: https://www.amazon.ca/Charger-Adapter-Replacement-Thinkpad-M... Now, I'm a cheapskate, so most of my electronics are older device…

Word of warning, for those reading this far: The Switch and Switch Dock are not USB-C devices. That you’re able to plug in a USB-C charger or USB-C device and see it supposedly work just means that you haven’t yet encountered the scenario(s) that can electronically damage the Switch. Nintendo’s warranty does not cover this damage when it occurs, requiring a full-cost repair or replacement as you connected unlicensed…

I have been using Switch in both docked and handheld mode with my Thinkpad charger without any issues. Maybe I am the lucky one.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#465

Post by bleepblorp »

In practice, the consumer-facing names of USB standards are dark patterns that allow manufacturers to scam customers without needing to make many (or any) product improvements.

For instance, take the fact that USB 3 and USB 3.1 Gen 1 are functionally equivalent and Gen 2 support (which brings with it the only actual improvements in USB 3.1) is an optional part of the USB 3.1 standard. The functional impact of this arrangement is that manufacturers could take USB 3.0 products, slap a 'USB 3.1' label on them, and market them as New and Improved for only the cost of new markings and marketing material.

Nice money if you can get it.

USB-C is even worse because every feature that end users actually want is optional and, in some cases (such as DP alternate mode lane support), isn't even listed in the fine print. Customers who don't have the awareness to spend many hours doing detailed research will very easily find themselves stuck in an expensive game of trial and error to buy USB-C devices that will actually work together.

Nice money if you can get it.

Like most modern tech products, the entire USB ecosystem reeks of the distinct smell of extractive scam.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#466

Post by justincormack »

ryanianian wrote: post #432
josho wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good (read expensive) dongle will work fine. I have one that reliably powers 2 monitors (a 5k and a 4k), 1gb network and powers my macbook. I think the real problem is we get a lot of cheap products coming from China with very little quality control. QC is poor because they have no incentive to build in quality. E.g. you likely don't realize how flaky the dongle is until after the 30 day return policy, the branding…

Don't cheap out on a USB-C hub: get a Thunderbolt 3 hub. I have a few CalDigit Thunderbolt 3 hubs. They're great. 4k monitor, gigabit ethernet, a number of USB-3 devices, and power-delivery for my Macbook. They are decidedly not cheap, but I wasted a lot of money on plain USB-C hubs (not Thuderbolt 3 which uses the same port but is not the same) that are now effectively trash. I've got one at all of the "workstations…

Yeah I have one but thinking of getting an AMD Desktop and that won't have thunderbolt, although maybe I can buy a PCI card?

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#467

Post by cactus2093 »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #444
buzzerbetrayed wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you not read the article? Because your response doesn’t address any of the issues brought up in the article. Mainly that all the usb-c cables you sprinkle across your house might not have the same functionality. And if you plug your switch in to one it might charge it, while another will not.

FWIW I've never had an issue with the cables. The only time USB-C has bitten me is when trying to charge a device using a charger meant for a lower tier of hardware. I've never had any issues with USB-PD chargers. For example my MBP charger works on everything. My phone chargers don't work at all on my cheap Chinese laptop, but they'll trickle charge my MBP (which has honestly been a lifesaver). Even my $20 battery p…

Exactly, and honestly it's pretty intuitive: big devices need big chargers. For me, my laptop is the only device I own that needs a big 100w adapter, everything else can share smaller adapters.

And one big benefit of the current USB-C era is that 15-18W power adapters are more ubiquitous than ever, and compact enough that there's almost never any reason to use a smaller one anymore. And more and more devices are not coming with their own power adapter these days, which is better for the environment and simplifies my life, every usb-c device I own can be charged by the same chargers and will charge quickly.

It's way better than each device coming with its own adapter of arbitrary shape that may or may not be able to be plugged in without blocking the adjacent socket on the wall or power strip, with seemingly arbitrary max power output, with an arbitrary choice of using usb A/mini/micro connector.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#468

Post by floatboth »

crote wrote: post #451
floatboth wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, docks are known not to request 4 lanes for DP even when there's only a display plugged in. In fact even dongles that don't have anything other than a display output on them sometimes only ever request 2 lanes, sadly.

You can't really blame them, though. The vast, vast majority of users will be absolutely fine with 2 lanes, especially with DP 1.3+. USB C is mainly used on laptops, and your office projector just isn't going to support 8K120 with HDR. Why spent the extra money if virtually nobody needs it?

4K60 without 1.3+ seems like a quite common situation..

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#469

Post by Gibbon1 »

bleepblorp wrote: post #393
dheera wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish there were legal protections around this. Using a standard plug means it should accept the standard for that plug.

Yes. USB-PD is in a twilight zone where it can deliver enough power to cause safety risks but, due to its low voltage, is not subject to the level of regulatory scrutiny that other electrical products receive. To date, the USB-IF's approach to safety and interoperability does not adequately protect consumers. USB-PD devices should not be incompatible to the point of damage but USB-IF has been unable to ensure this by…

Yeah anything that can drop 100W into a device absolutely needs to be under regulatory compliance.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#470

Post by amelius »

Decker87 wrote: post #18
amelius wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wait until you have to write an embedded driver for it.

I'll be waiting for a long, long time then.

If you're an embedded developer, that's usually a matter of your boss or a customer deciding it for you.
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