My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison • Hacker News Board

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#251

Post by infamouscow » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:58 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #117

s_dev wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A criminal record in the US is a curse for life The US system probably is overly harsh -- in Ireland it's probaby overly lenient and the pendulum affect is that we've criminals being called in to court with literally hundreds of prior convictions and then they're let off with suspended sentences and then go straight back to what they were doing. Equally frustrating -- to see the guilty just walk off and laugh as it…

> The US system probably is overly harsh -- in Ireland it's probaby overly lenient and the pendulum affect is that we've criminals being called in to court with literally hundreds of prior convictions and then they're let off with suspended sentences and then go straight back to what they were doing. FWIW, it's not evenly distributed in the US. We have jurisdictions like Chicago where violent offenders are released o…

> never mind the more abstract reasons for preserving free speech, such as "what happens when your ideological cohort falls out of power and someone else gets to decide what speech is permissible?"

Most people that I talk to opposed to net neutrality are opposed it solely because this point is deeply concerning to them.

Broadly speaking, people are quick to give the government additional power when it aligns with their interests, but are critical of the government when the additional power is used for things they disagree with.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#252

Post by vkou » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:58 PM UTC

joncrane wrote: post #156

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In total, about a half million people are in jail or prison for having, using, or selling drugs. Drug crimes account for about half of Federal prisoners. But percentage-wise, when you add up federal, state, and local prisons and jails, drugs are not as large a percentage as you'd think. Another half million people in prisons or jails haven't been convicted of any crime at all, either because they can't afford bail or…

What's not captured here is that drugs are a contributing factor to many of the crimes committed. An old and rather tired example is the junky stealing to get his next fix. The crime is robbery, but the cause is drugs. I would argue (having been in jail myself multiple times, and, by the way, thanks to a lot of factors, now very happily and gainfully employed) that drugs are at the very least a co-factor on the vast…

I think most people understand this.

What I'd like to see is the junkie to just get drugs from the government. It's cheaper for society to pay for a $20 fix (That costs $2 to produce), then for $500 dollars in property damage, a stolen $200 item that gets fenced for $20, a cop to show up to do a police report, and then, months down the road, an arrest, prison time, etc, etc.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#253

Post by ticmasta » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:59 PM UTC

koiz wrote: post #60

Chernobog wrote: post #53

I was convicted for drugs and firearms in Norway. The only time it has ever come up during my many years as a programmer, was when a consulting company I worked for had the police IT service as a candidate for my next project. Since it was for the police, a background check would be required. I politely told my department head that I would not pass that, and a short summary of my case. At that time I had worked for a…

In the USA, background checks are often just part of the process. There's an entire industry built around providing the service.

including a YC-backed firm that does this explicitly. I find it sad/humorous that they have copy about "connecting companies with a more diverse set of candidates" while essentially selling a service for streamlined filtering out this pool of people. I get the need in certain circumstances, just get tired of companies trying to have it both ways.

https://checkr.com/company

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#254

Post by SquishyPanda23 » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:59 PM UTC

s_dev wrote: post #31

caseyscottmckay wrote: post #8

We need more of this. A criminal record in the US is a curse for life, leaving former criminals with little chance at success and little to live for. People without much to live for are dangerous. We should help our former criminals rather than condemn them for life--it benefits us all.

>A criminal record in the US is a curse for life The US system probably is overly harsh -- in Ireland it's probaby overly lenient and the pendulum affect is that we've criminals being called in to court with literally hundreds of prior convictions and then they're let off with suspended sentences and then go straight back to what they were doing. Equally frustrating -- to see the guilty just walk off and laugh as it…

> The US system probably is overly harsh -- in Ireland it's probaby overly lenient

The US system is overly harsh to some groups of people and overly lenient to others, and the imbalance creates its own set of problems.

I would love to see sane prison reform based on data and science.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#255

Post by rorykoehler » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:59 PM UTC

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #130

In Germany I was asked to provide my criminal record while working at a payment processing startup that had to obtain certain certificates. They were probably looking for crimes of a fiscal nature however, which is understandable. Second chances are second chances but security is mostly about trust. Another job at a startup in Germany that worked in less tightly controlled spaces has never asked me to produce my crim…

Theft, fraud and violence are applicable for all jobs surely.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#256

Post by miguelmota » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:59 PM UTC

In the US even if you get _accused_ of a felony and aren't guilty, it will still haunt you for life because it's in your permanent record forever and if employers had to choose between two equal candidates they'll most likely choose the one with the "clean" record.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#257

Post by __s » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:59 PM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #183

koiz wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA, background checks are often just part of the process. There's an entire industry built around providing the service.

Do you find that this industry is staffed with rude people with a bad attitude, who treat everyone being screened like a criminal?

No

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#258

Post by anttisalmela » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 6:00 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #110

koiz wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA, background checks are often just part of the process. There's an entire industry built around providing the service.

Readers from other countries, what is it like there? I remember when I lived in Australia, my friends told me that many crimes do not show up on background checks after 5 years. Also in Australia, the sex offender registry is confidential, and can only be checked for very specific things (jobs involving children, certain types of housing, etc.) In the US, there are ways of getting records expunged for some crimes, bu…

Here in .fi employers are not permitted to do any background checks - all they can legally use is the information provided by the applicant. They can ask permission to request security clearance from the Finnish Security and Intelligence Service (Supo), which would then do the background checks, but this is allowed for only some jobs.

Working with children may require that you provide extract from the criminal record, but only certain crimes (violence, child abuse, sex offences, drug offences, human trafficking etc.) are considered.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#259

Post by throwaway894345 » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 6:00 PM UTC

x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #222

throwaway894345 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US system probably is overly harsh -- in Ireland it's probaby overly lenient and the pendulum affect is that we've criminals being called in to court with literally hundreds of prior convictions and then they're let off with suspended sentences and then go straight back to what they were doing. FWIW, it's not evenly distributed in the US. We have jurisdictions like Chicago where violent offenders are released o…

What's the objective of this comment? It starts off talking about "Chicago = War Zone" and then it devolves into the ground state of HN's favorite whipping children of "cancel culture", "free speech" and how "The well-being of these communities shouldn't be exchanged for free-speech(?)". I'm not even sure what the last point was meant to be about other than showing angst at the idea that racist comments are largely d…

> What's the objective of this comment? It starts off talking about "Chicago = War Zone" and then it devolves into the ground state of HN's favorite whipping children of "cancel culture", "free speech" and how "The well-being of these communities shouldn't be exchanged for free-speech(?)".

Chicago isn't a warzone. Last year I bought my first home here. I wouldn't live here if it were a warzone. But it does have problems and I have a vested interest in their resolution (or more realistically, reducing their impact). I think I explained pretty clearly how I see cancel culture, etc relating to these problems. If you have specific questions, I'm happy to try to answer (I don't claim perfect knowledge, I'm only sharing my perspective).

> "The well-being of these communities shouldn't be exchanged for free-speech(?)". I'm not even sure what the last point was meant to be about other than showing angst at the idea that racist comments are largely derided and marginalized.

I don't know how you got "angst at the idea that racist comments are largely derided and marginalized". I explicitly noted that marginalizing actual racism is a good thing. The problem is that a lot of necessary debate is considered beyond the pale such that we are only allowed to talk about the solutions which (pretty obviously) are only going to exacerbate the problem, such as reducing policing in the communities most in need and letting violent offenders out without the necessary rehabilitation. Your comment (inadvertently, I'm sure) lumps these concerns in with "racist comments", illustrating perfectly my issue with political correctness. I understand the desire for a simple worldview with a group of purely good guys and a group of purely bad guys, but I'm interested in solving real world problems and the real world has a lot of nuance to be explored. We have to be able to talk about that nuance in order to solve these problems. We're not doing these communities any favors by avoiding unpleasant complexities.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#260

Post by vkou » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 6:02 PM UTC

bhawks wrote: post #189

patmcc wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what should happen to that person, exactly? Should they be in prison forever? Should they be released but not allowed to work? Should they only be allowed to work by themselves? I understand your reluctance, but the alternatives to "let the released felon work" are not great.

Actions have consequences and after breaking major societal taboos like murder or rape it is very difficult or impossible to repair the damage a person has done to society. I have trouble judging people negatively if they don't want to associate with a person who has murdered or raped someone.

You're not answering the question that was asked.

Are you going to keep them in prison forever? Are you going to let them out, to be jobless?