USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess • Hacker News Board

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#421

Post by zaroth » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:36 PM UTC

shiftpgdn wrote: post #390

danhor wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All (or most) of the reports of switches being bricked stem for 3rd party docks, where the dock is at fault and using 9v for signal pins, see https://hackaday.com/2019/08/04/the-not-quite-usb-c-of-ninte...

I bricked a switch using my macbook charger. It's poor design in the switch to accept a USB cable that can potentially zap the device.

You should look for a lawyer who would take it on contingency and sue. Sounds like a great class action. You often get more money as a class representative rather than just a class member.

They put USB-C on the box. They screwed up the design. They should be forced to have a recall, or extend the warranty.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#422

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:37 PM UTC

vr46 wrote: post #408

floatingatoll wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Word of warning, for those reading this far: The Switch and Switch Dock are not USB-C devices. That you’re able to plug in a USB-C charger or USB-C device and see it supposedly work just means that you haven’t yet encountered the scenario(s) that can electronically damage the Switch. Nintendo’s warranty does not cover this damage when it occurs, requiring a full-cost repair or replacement as you connected unlicensed…

They're not but the tech specs have the words USB-C right there. https://www.nintendo.com/switch/tech-specs/ It is very annoying.

[deleted]

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#423

Post by barkingcat » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:39 PM UTC

jeremymcanally wrote: post #4

Really? I find it to be a game changer for me. The fact that my laptop, Switch, iPad, and several other devices can all share a charge has made my life much easier. I can just sprinkle a few of them throughout the house and never be without power. Before it was always a hunt to find a cable, or I had to be in [x] room to charge [y] device because that's where the charger lived. Plus, I can charge my MacBook on either…

The problem is that they all probably can't share chargers or cables.

Be aware that cables of different specs of usb-c are known to burst into fire when you use them for charging or to connect devices of different specs.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#424

Post by ehsankia » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:42 PM UTC

JAlexoid wrote: post #146

cameronh90 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I charge my Switch with various USB PD chargers (mostly Anker but also Apple, Google and others) and haven't had a problem so far. I was trying to find some information about what would cause PD-compliant chargers to fry the Switch. It appears that while the switch is PD-compliant itself, they used a slightly non-standard connector that reduces tolerances and could, in some situations (most likely worn cables) cause…

I found that Switch cannot use Apple's charger with the dock. It literally complains about the cable being wrong.

That's a slightly different problem. Charging the device vs the dock working. I almost never used the dock, but I charge my device all the time with other USB-C cables.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#425

Post by vangelis » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:44 PM UTC

oso2k wrote: post #297

vr46 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aha - you may find that your Switch CANNOT in fact share a charge - Nintendo's port is not necessarily safe to use with anything but its supplied charger. And I've just learned this lesson with a $60 bill from Nintendo repair after the port went pop and couldn't charge the device. I only have reputable chargers in the house from Apple and one from Anker aside from the Nintendo's own. All my apple kit works fine off t…

I haven’t found this to be true. I’ve used 4 or more different chargers. A couple off-brand USB-C chargers, USB-C dock/charger, Apple USB-C chargers, USB-C to USB 2.0/3.0 cables with 1A, 2.4A, 2.5A chargers. All worked without issue. In fact, I left the Nintendo wall wart at home (I usually travel for work) and just bring along a USB-C to USB cable with me.

It's possible to buy USB-C 2.0 cables and USB-B 3.0 cables, for when your printer needs the extra transfer I guess.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#426

Post by d1zzy » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:44 PM UTC

coryfklein wrote: post #311

dcchambers wrote: post #82

USB-C is mostly a mess if you try to get away using the cheapest adapters/cables you can find, that often times won't follow the spec. Most of the issues vanish if you use high-end cables/adapters from reputable manufacturers. This is a departure from the world of Micro USB where most cheap cables worked just as good as "high end" cables. There are caveats. For example, my Nintendo Switch, a major electronics device…

And how exactly does one know they have received a "high end" cable or charger? Because it cost enough? Because a website claimed it was "Offishial Ankker CABLE"? I'm with you; as an educated techie I'm confident I can find a setup that works for my devices, but I'm far from the common denominator here. Frankly I'm a little concerned when HN thinks, "Nah this isn't a problem, USB-C is working just fine for me. None o…

> And how exactly does one know they have received a "high end" cable or charger? Because it cost enough? Because a website claimed it was "Offishial Ankker CABLE"?

Ensure that whatever peripherals you buy that need high speed connectivity _come_ with the USB-C cables they need. Since the cable is part of the product the manufacturer will ensure they will bundle the cheapest cable that still works for that product as advertised. This works naturally for devices like USB-C docks, USB-C monitors and hubs.

The problem with USB-C is that many people look at it as a connector _and_ transmission standard but it is not, it's only a connector standard. The transmission standards are specified separately and they are many. Depending on your application (what do you use the USB-C for) certain cables may work or not. You'd have to do the research to determine which signal do you need to transport over that USB-C cable: is it PD power (up to what wattage/amperage), is it USB2 (how many devices), is it DisplayPort or is it Thunderbolt3. Then buy a cable that advertises support for the signal you need.

Alternatively, buy a cable that advertises support for the highest bitrate of all those transmission types, essentially buy a cable that advertises Thunderbolt3 support, but in that case don't be surprised why almost all TB3 cables are very short, it's not easy to transport 40Gbit/sec reliably. There are longer, but active and a lot more expensive, TB3 cables.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#427

Post by sbierwagen » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:45 PM UTC

jasonlotito wrote: post #218

tristor wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly it. If you want anything that actually works and is reliable, you pretty much cannot buy it on Amazon, you need to buy it directly from the company that makes it. I have a Henge Dock for my older 13" MBP and it's worked perfectly for years over USB-C, and on my newer Touchbar 13" I havea a 2-port USB-C microdock from HyperDrive. I use Anker PD/IQ3 chargers and cables, and I have no issues whatsoever.…

> If you want anything that actually works and is reliable, you pretty much cannot buy it on Amazon, you need to buy it directly from the company that makes it. I remember several years ago purchasing the $70 digital adapter from Apple. It's the one with 3 ports and merges into one. I forget which version it was. It was horrible. The HDMI port wouldn't work. I had purchased two. They were absolute trash. That's $140.…

GP: "Buying stuff from Amazon is like rolling dice. If you get a 1, you lose."

P: "I rolled a 6, and it worked fine for me. I don't know why everyone else is having problems."

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#428

Post by colejohnson66 » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:45 PM UTC

beowulfey wrote: post #383

danhor wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All (or most) of the reports of switches being bricked stem for 3rd party docks, where the dock is at fault and using 9v for signal pins, see https://hackaday.com/2019/08/04/the-not-quite-usb-c-of-ninte...

Whether or not this is the case, Nintendo makes it very clear in their warranty that using an unauthorized charger is not covered. They definitely did not intend for it to be a universal port.

The problem is that most consumers don’t read those warnings. And the “reasonable person” would assume that any USB-C cable would work if the USB-C-like receptacle mates with their USB-C cable.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#429

Post by johnwalkr » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:46 PM UTC

I'm loving USB-C. I travel a lot and invested a few new devices and even upgraded a few devices to USB-C (you can find small boards on aliexpress which provide a usb-c port and output 5, 9, 12, 15 or 20V). Even my shaver charges by USB-C.

However it takes some research, and I wish the spec was pared down more. Others mentioned that Nintendo switch can be damaged by a bad charger. They also chose to implement HDMI out using displayport converted to HDMI, so very few HDMI adapters are compatible.

Thunderbolt vs USB is confusing.

Hubs are confusing. USB-C hubs are basically impossible. USB2 or 3 hubs work well but share the speed and power with multiple devices. Easy to understand. USB-C (3.2) can supply up to 100W and 20Gbps. But one device can use up to 100W, and one 4k@60fps HDMI signal can use up to 20Gbps (even more in fact). So it's not possible to make a usb-c hub without a lot of limitations. Not to mention it's not trivial to set each device as a power sink or source. That's why hubs generally have usb-c on one side and usb-a 2.0 or 3.1 on the other side.

I don't know what the solution could be, you can't keep the versatility without removing functionality.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#430

Post by dkonofalski » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:46 PM UTC

dheera wrote: post #305

mikepurvis wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends, though. In all likelihood it would end up thrown back on the consumer— "Did you use a licensed/approved/certified charger? Sounds like you need to take this up with whoever made the charger that fried our product." It might help resolve certain really common cases like compatibility between the chargers and devices of the mainstream entities. I guess I'd argue that that should be happening on its own, but…

The chargers that use standard plugs should also be made to support the standard or they should be held legally responsible. In this particular case I think even well-known name brand chargers which follow standards (Apple, Anker) are breaking the Nintendo, and that's unacceptable.

That is not the case. The current reports, as far as I've seen, have all (or at least mostly) been from 3rd party docks where pins on the dock side were bridged and shorted the charger, frying the Switch's port.

Edit: A poster below this question said they fried their Switch by using their Macbook charger so I may have been naively optimistic in my original statement.