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My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

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Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#221

Post by voxic11 »

nexuist wrote: post #153
dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #130

In Germany I was asked to provide my criminal record while working at a payment processing startup that had to obtain certain certificates. They were probably looking for crimes of a fiscal nature however, which is understandable. Second chances are second chances but security is mostly about trust. Another job at a startup in Germany that worked in less tightly controlled spaces has never asked me to produce my crim…

What crimes are applicable to software engineers, then? I don't think there are any laws punishing you from writing bad code, nor are there laws addressing data theft or security misconfigurations. GDPR applies against companies and not individual people, as far as I can tell. Would the only valid crimes be related to computer hacking?

Perjury maybe? A lot of compliance relies on truthful reporting by employees.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#222

Post by x86_64Ubuntu »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #117
s_dev wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A criminal record in the US is a curse for life The US system probably is overly harsh -- in Ireland it's probaby overly lenient and the pendulum affect is that we've criminals being called in to court with literally hundreds of prior convictions and then they're let off with suspended sentences and then go straight back to what they were doing. Equally frustrating -- to see the guilty just walk off and laugh as it…

> The US system probably is overly harsh -- in Ireland it's probaby overly lenient and the pendulum affect is that we've criminals being called in to court with literally hundreds of prior convictions and then they're let off with suspended sentences and then go straight back to what they were doing. FWIW, it's not evenly distributed in the US. We have jurisdictions like Chicago where violent offenders are released o…

What's the objective of this comment? It starts off talking about "Chicago = War Zone" and then it devolves into the ground state of HN's favorite whipping children of "cancel culture", "free speech" and how "The well-being of these communities shouldn't be exchanged for free-speech(?)". I'm not even sure what the last point was meant to be about other than showing angst at the idea that racist comments are largely derided and marginalized.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#223

Post by ehsankia »

stupidgarbage wrote: post #209
caseyscottmckay wrote: post #8

We need more of this. A criminal record in the US is a curse for life, leaving former criminals with little chance at success and little to live for. People without much to live for are dangerous. We should help our former criminals rather than condemn them for life--it benefits us all.

After all the law abiding have their jobs then sure, let them have the leftovers.

What's the point of serving time if you still have to keep getting punished afterwards. According to you, every person who's committed a crime should have a life sentence?

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#224

Post by [deleted] »

thelean12 wrote: post #14

There are a lot of people saying they're in favor of this type of thing. And for non-violent offenses I'd probably also be on board. But this person committed a "serious, violent crime" that sent them to prison for 13 years. Are you comfortable sitting next to someone who is capable of a "serious, violent crime"? Are there certain crimes that cross the line for you? Would you expect your employer to inform you of the…

[deleted]

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#225

Post by chmod775 »

djsumdog wrote: post #110
koiz wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA, background checks are often just part of the process. There's an entire industry built around providing the service.

Readers from other countries, what is it like there? I remember when I lived in Australia, my friends told me that many crimes do not show up on background checks after 5 years. Also in Australia, the sex offender registry is confidential, and can only be checked for very specific things (jobs involving children, certain types of housing, etc.) In the US, there are ways of getting records expunged for some crimes, bu…

> I know in the EU, many countries have right to be forgotten laws

These are not even really relevant, since in most places it's considered unethical or even illegal for journalists (or anyone really) to publish names of suspects or convicted common* criminals. You will generally read "Man/Woman convicted for X" and sometimes just their first name.

This is a consequence of systems that mostly focus on rehabilitation and reintegration. Having your name show up in newspaper articles would seriously hinder that.

If your main focus was punishment instead, then publishing the names of criminals just goes well with that.

And finally you can't just ask to see the criminal history of X, and it would be illegal to discriminate based on such knowledge if it is not relevant to the job. In Germany only yourself can obtain your own criminal record (Führungszeugnis) - your employer can't obtain it directly. It's generally thought to be illegal for an employer to ask you for this (it was never tested in court though, because nobody was stupid enough to try). The only exception are if you will be working with minors or if it's specifically relevant to your job (compliance officers, financial stuff...).

*If you are a high-profile individual you are fair game. For instance the Wirecard CEO and COO.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#226

Post by x86_64Ubuntu »

minitoar wrote: post #160
deelowe wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt there is one.

Does that mean the concept has no value, or that racist tweets do not exist (since they cannot be easily defined)?

He means that there is no racist comment that can be posted on Twitter that he feels should result in affecting one's employment.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#227

Post by Master_Odin »

mc32 wrote: post #41
caseyscottmckay wrote: post #8

We need more of this. A criminal record in the US is a curse for life, leaving former criminals with little chance at success and little to live for. People without much to live for are dangerous. We should help our former criminals rather than condemn them for life--it benefits us all.

I agree. We should definitely have more of this and trades training for people in lock up, so they can do something productive once they get out. Instead of hitting the weights every day, they can engage in productive learning. We all benefit.

Except for the privatized prisons who don't actually want to rehabilitate their inmates so that they're more likely to recidivate and end up back in prison. The prison system has to be completely overhauled and freed from capitalism at the expense of human life.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#228

Post by AlexTWithBeard »

bluGill wrote: post #212
minitoar wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think a good definition of “racist tweet” would be?

There shouldn't be one. Everything bad about a racist tweet is bad when race isn't an issue. Society has switched what it is racist about many times in the past. Just 100 years ago (WWI was just over) it was worse to be German than black in the US. Someone told me that in the 1870s the KKK had many black members - the group was against Catholics not blacks, but they changed (I do not know if this is true, but even if…

The definition can refer to any innate quality.

The whole idea of these rules is to avoid discriminating people based on something outside of their control: color, gender, height, age, country of origin and so on.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#229

Post by x86_64Ubuntu »

AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #108
staticassertion wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather hire a criminal (depending on the crime, obviously) than, say, a racist, especially given how many laws I disagree with.

There's a problem though: - The standard of proof in criminal law is very high. There are very specific definitions of most criminal acts and these must be proven "beyond reasonable doubt" - The definition of "racist tweet" on the other hand is as fuzzy as it can be. Usually it drills down to "someone whom I don't like said something that I have interpreted in the way I don't like" If we think that racist tweets shou…

Proof of criminal law in the US is notoriously low. Police perjury especially concerning marginalized groups is routine business.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_perjury

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/18/nyregion/testilying-polic...

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#230

Post by lostlogin »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #131
vincentmarle wrote: post #5

The way that ex-felons are treated in society is despicable, no wonder there's a 55% recidivism rate if you get blocked at every attempt to becoming a productive member of society. The Last Mile seems like a great program to share our tech skills and knowledge with people who really need a leg up. I will be signing up as a volunteer today.

I would be very interested in understanding how much of that recidivism rate is attributable to "ex-felon discrimination" or whatever we might call it as opposed to other variables.

It gets very philosophical fast. Prison is for punishment, rehabilitation, protection of society and is there to serve as a deterrent. Over emphasis on the need to punish seems to cause a lot of long term harm.
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