My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison • Hacker News Board

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#201

Post by ponker » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:24 PM UTC

luckylion wrote: post #174

meheleventyone wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like that lady needs care more than she needs more prison time. Particularly after a 16 month sentence and the petty nature of the actual crime. Incidents like these get in the national press precisely because they are rare and hence interesting. Do you think there are tens of people, hundred of people or thousands of people with >100 criminal convictions?

In Germany, that would Intensivtäter (literally intensive perpetrators). It's not rare to have young men with dozens of convictions for assault, breaking and entering, mugging etc. They typically don't get any jail time and will collect more indictments between being arrested and seeing a judge. For Berlin they're having a list of 500 people, almost all male.

I wonder how much better you could make society if you managed to take the worst 1% of scumbags and remove them.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#202

Post by plazmatic » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:25 PM UTC

Chernobog wrote: post #53

I was convicted for drugs and firearms in Norway. The only time it has ever come up during my many years as a programmer, was when a consulting company I worked for had the police IT service as a candidate for my next project. Since it was for the police, a background check would be required. I politely told my department head that I would not pass that, and a short summary of my case. At that time I had worked for a…

What's the point of your post other than bragging about your situation?

Congrats, you live in Norway where they actually care about reform and reintegrating.

The U.S. isn't like that...at all. EVERY JOB HAS A BACKGROUND CHECK. Even most min-wage jobs. Someone like you would hardly have any opportunities here, even if you were a god-tier programmer.

God damn. Hacker news top posts are embarrassing 90% of the time with nonsensical posts like Chernobogs.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#203

Post by avisser » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:26 PM UTC

ponker wrote: post #194

saagarjha wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Equally frustrating -- to see the guilty just walk off and laugh as it is to see the redeemed struggle having conceded their mistakes. That of course depends on your value system. There are many that consider sending an innocent person to jail far worse than letting a guilty person walk free, and I’m sure you can apply a similar worldview here as well.

Getting guilt right and what punishment to dispense to the guilty are different questions. For example you could have 100-member juries with unanimous verdicts required, but also execute anyone convicted of any crime.

> Getting guilt right and what punishment to dispense to the guilty are different questions.

I disagree.

If your legal system executes people, they are inseparable questions.

I would generalize to say that the more severe your sentences, the more those two questions are related.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#204

Post by sbmthakur » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:27 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #110

koiz wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA, background checks are often just part of the process. There's an entire industry built around providing the service.

Readers from other countries, what is it like there? I remember when I lived in Australia, my friends told me that many crimes do not show up on background checks after 5 years. Also in Australia, the sex offender registry is confidential, and can only be checked for very specific things (jobs involving children, certain types of housing, etc.) In the US, there are ways of getting records expunged for some crimes, bu…

In India, it's like the US. There are dedicated firms which do that. I am not sure if it's a legal requirement.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#205

Post by duderific » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:28 PM UTC

Igelau wrote: post #159

_jal wrote: post #4

That's awesome, and depressing, when you think of how rare that is. But kudos to Jessica for giving a shit and the person in question for keeping at it.

It's a common thing that "uplifting news" has an undercurrent of something systemically wrong. More: https://fair.org/home/media-just-cant-stop-presenting-horrif...

Thank you for sharing that link, I never looked at these stories through the lense of "what's actually wrong with this situation." I learned something today.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#206

Post by Igelau » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:29 PM UTC

thelean12 wrote: post #14

There are a lot of people saying they're in favor of this type of thing. And for non-violent offenses I'd probably also be on board. But this person committed a "serious, violent crime" that sent them to prison for 13 years. Are you comfortable sitting next to someone who is capable of a "serious, violent crime"? Are there certain crimes that cross the line for you? Would you expect your employer to inform you of the…

We're all capable of it. Humans are hairless apes with neither claws nor tusks who spend more time in helpless, bawling infancy than any other animal. Yet somehow we survived among literal monsters in prehistory. If we are not prey...?

Have you never been violent, not even once? With anyone? Were you old enough to be tried as an adult under the right circumstances? Even the slightest physical conflict is only a dice roll away from turning into a horrific accident that does lasting damage.

And what is your alternative? Keep offenders in the system forever? Do we believe in the "Correction" of "Correctional Facilities" or not? Forgiveness? Rehabilitation? Redemption?

At some point you have to stop passing the buck to someone else to let people back into society, otherwise you're just being a predestinationalist by your deeds.

> Would you expect your employer to inform you of their record?

No, I would find that offensive. Similarly I wouldn't want to know about their military record, substance habits, childhood, credit score, or the last mean thing their spouse said to them. That's all personal.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#207

Post by atraktor » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:30 PM UTC

I guarantee that if you give every prisoner or delinquent to do what he likes or a normal job, he will be like the rest of us, a completely normal person. Bad government and lack of smart strategy and vision makes criminals, nothing more.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#208

Post by edbob » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:30 PM UTC

JeremyBanks wrote: post #111

vincentmarle wrote: post #5

The way that ex-felons are treated in society is despicable, no wonder there's a 55% recidivism rate if you get blocked at every attempt to becoming a productive member of society. The Last Mile seems like a great program to share our tech skills and knowledge with people who really need a leg up. I will be signing up as a volunteer today.

Felon disenfranchisement is also disgustingly anti-democratic and further segregates them from society at large. If you have enough felons for them to affect the outcome, your problem isn't that they have the right to vote, it's that you're arresting too many people.

In Texas, voting rights are restored automatically upon completion of the sentence. It seems very fair to me. I don't consider it a hardship. I actually feel like it's a benefit to not have to worry about voting in this election.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#209

Post by stupidgarbage » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:32 PM UTC

caseyscottmckay wrote: post #8

We need more of this. A criminal record in the US is a curse for life, leaving former criminals with little chance at success and little to live for. People without much to live for are dangerous. We should help our former criminals rather than condemn them for life--it benefits us all.

After all the law abiding have their jobs then sure, let them have the leftovers.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#210

Post by Meph504 » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:32 PM UTC

downandout wrote: post #147

Meph504 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recidivism statistics would disagree with this statement, nearly have of all violent offenders when released will commit another violent crime. https://www.michigan.gov/documents/corrections/Pew_Report_St...

First, you did not point out the specific page where it says that “nearly all” violent offenders will commit another violent crime. This is a 42 page report. Second, I could not find any statistic in that report that comes even remotely close to describing that “most” violent offenders will commit another violent crime. Some states have recidivism rates approaching 50% (for ALL offenders, violent and nonviolent) but…

sorry, it's a typo the "nearly have" was supposed to be " nearly half." I don't believe even with the typo someone would likely see "nearly all."

If you want a more summarized article you can find one here https://www.ussc.gov/research/research-reports/recidivism-am...

I originally posted the pew one as I feel the chance of biased against offenders is lower from their research, but this article does a better job of summarizing, as well as offering their full report.

After looking over the data again, it seems that nearly half will commit another crime but only 28.4% will be a violent one.

with these adjusted numbers, it still is inaccurate to say "...Chances are she would be less likely to engage in violence than the people you currently sit next to,..."