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USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

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Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#371

Post by yodsanklai »

cortesoft wrote: post #367
jeremymcanally wrote: post #4

Really? I find it to be a game changer for me. The fact that my laptop, Switch, iPad, and several other devices can all share a charge has made my life much easier. I can just sprinkle a few of them throughout the house and never be without power. Before it was always a hunt to find a cable, or I had to be in [x] room to charge [y] device because that's where the charger lived. Plus, I can charge my MacBook on either…

Am I the only one who misses the Magsafe chargers? My kid just yesterday pulled my wife's laptop off her desk to the ground because she got caught in the charging cable. It was such a game changer to not bend plugs/break laptops when you got the cord stuck on something.. and we gave that all up just to have one port.

I do miss it but less than what I expected. My laptop has a good autonomy, so I'm less dependent on charging. Also, most of the charging happens when it's linked to the usb-c monitor where you can't trip on the cable (which is above the desk).

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#372

Post by teorema »

lambada wrote: post #261
derefr wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USB Consortium’s licensing strategy is to restrict what people can label with the USB logo, by holding trademark over that logo. You then have to work out an arrangement with them, in order for your hardware to proclaim itself as USB-compatible by using the logo. This is their “in” to ensure you’re doing USB correctly. The Nintendo charging port is not labelled with a USB logo. It’s fundamentally not a USB-C port…

Interestingly in the UK, Nintendo _explicitly_ label it as a USB-C port. I'm not sure if they do or not elsewhere, but they definitely claim it's a USB-C port 'for AC charging' over here. https://imgur.com/a/fwTM699

That to me, is the key boundary being crossed, like enough to merit a large-class action award for any damages sustained anywhere by anyone who plugged a USB-C device into the port.

I do think there's something to be said for liability for creating a port that is so similar to USB-C, but also causing damage, akin to copyright laws, based on consumer confusion. I.e., if a reasonable person might think it is a variant of USB-C, and USB devices seem to work for long periods of time without apparent damage, then Nintendo is liable by virtue of resulting damage to the consumer's property (not to the USB organization). There's a certain liability for negligence in that case. But I could also see reasonable arguments that if Nintendo were explicitly saying it is not a USB port, that they shouldn't be liable (I don't agree but see it as a reasonable argument).

But if Nintendo is advertising it in anyway like that, they should be held liable. I just don't see a reasonable argument for why that wouldn't be the case. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#373

Post by shadowgovt »

542354234235 wrote: post #240
shadowgovt wrote: post #126

I don't think the issue is as hard as the author makes it out to be. 1) have device 2) have charger 3) plug device into charger 4) does it charge? 5) if no, write on charger "sucks" and get another charger If one is worried about buying the wrong charger, here's a hint: people review these things on online stores, and cheaper is worse.

Multiply that by millions of people and 10s of millions of devices and it is a pretty big deal. How is advocating for a standard so that every purchase wasn’t a crap shoot a bad thing? Having to sort through reviews just to attempt to determine basic functionality is ridiculous. I don’t read reviews to find out of a table lamp will plug into the wall because the basic standard of delivery power over a power cable is…

It took quite a long time to get to where you could assume an arbitrary table lamp plugged into an arbitrary wall socket would work.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#374

Post by coryfklein »

kstrauser wrote: post #346
coryfklein wrote: post #322

Apple MacBooks with USB-C are standard issue for everyone at our company. You know what else is standard issue? A f$#%ing dongle so you can actually plug anything into said laptop. I can't help but think that all these folks saying, "oh it's so nice, everything I've ever wanted to plug in runs on USB-C" represent a tiny minority of the real world. The only two cables I own that can plug into my laptop connect it to:…

What's wrong with that, though? Of course there's going to be a while where we have to deal with both standards, but that's true of everything. I have a USB A-to-C hub sitting on my desk. It's plugged into my Mac Mini's USB-C port, and all the legacy stuff plugs into it. That's not such a terrible situation.

Things wrong with dongles:

1) You have to select them (not an easy task when trying to make sure it has all the compatible ports and power requirements)

2) Increases the number of things you can forget to bring that can make your laptop unusable/less useable

3) They detract from the clean Apple aesthetic

4) They increase the cost of your setup, sometimes significantly if you want to match the Apple quality. MacBooks certainly didn't get cheaper when they switched to USB-C only.

I did not have any dongles before Apple moved to USB-C, so I didn't have to deal with any of the above. Also, none of these things needed to happen! Apple could have done what they usually do - gradually transition. Add 1-2 USB-C and then only eliminate the other ports when most folks could do without.

EDIT: One more thing to add - this "transition period" is probably going to last 10+ years for me because I bought a $350 Kinesis Advantage keyboard with a USB Type A connector. It's a solid keyboard that I expect will live at least 10 years.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#375

Post by dathinab »

cowmoo728 wrote: post #22
jeremymcanally wrote: post #4

Really? I find it to be a game changer for me. The fact that my laptop, Switch, iPad, and several other devices can all share a charge has made my life much easier. I can just sprinkle a few of them throughout the house and never be without power. Before it was always a hunt to find a cable, or I had to be in [x] room to charge [y] device because that's where the charger lived. Plus, I can charge my MacBook on either…

Except the switch doesn't actually use usb-c pd, it's a different proprietary thing that uses a usb-c connector.

No it uses USB-C PD!

It's just incorrectly implements the switch to an alternate mode which it uses for it's duck which causes 3rd party docks to fry switches.

It's generally more sensitive in that alternate mode as it draws more power.

The dock itself is a different matter.

But the switch does implant USB-C PD just fine.

I'm frequently charging it with my laptop charger and many people do so as far as I know.

It's also why using a power bank with the switch works just fine.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#376

Post by whywhywhywhy »

hinkley wrote: post #284
josho wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good (read expensive) dongle will work fine. I have one that reliably powers 2 monitors (a 5k and a 4k), 1gb network and powers my macbook. I think the real problem is we get a lot of cheap products coming from China with very little quality control. QC is poor because they have no incentive to build in quality. E.g. you likely don't realize how flaky the dongle is until after the 30 day return policy, the branding…

Or spring for a monitor with thunderbolt on it, and ditch the dongle or move it to a permanent location behind the monitor. I am currently waiting for thunderbolt 4 support to upgrade my other monitor, so can have a hub in there somewhere instead of some devices plugged into each monitor.

> Or spring for a monitor with thunderbolt on it

I mean if you can suggest one that actually does that I’ll get right on pestering my work for one. But considering the fact they bought the basically useless base model MacBook “pro” I don’t fancy my chances.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#377

Post by whywhywhywhy »

josho wrote: post #98
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #37

It's honestly such a complete joke it's not even funny anymore. My USB-C MacBook Pro with it's pathetic two ports that my work bought for me is now old enough that the battery is starting to fail and we're still in a world where this single cable for power, screen and ports just doesn't seem to really exist. I'm starting to be convinced the port is fundamentally flawed, dongles with multiple ports are never reliable…

A good (read expensive) dongle will work fine. I have one that reliably powers 2 monitors (a 5k and a 4k), 1gb network and powers my macbook. I think the real problem is we get a lot of cheap products coming from China with very little quality control. QC is poor because they have no incentive to build in quality. E.g. you likely don't realize how flaky the dongle is until after the 30 day return policy, the branding…

Which dongle is this that works and can it keep a drive mounted while video editing?

As I said don’t you think it’s strange that if this product supposedly works perfectly then why isn’t Apple shipping one with a premium price tag.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#378

Post by tootie »

jk700 wrote: post #164
tootie wrote: post #29

Isn't the magic of USB-C Power Delivery that it can negotiate a voltage? Previous iterations of USB only operated at 5V and USB-C can operate anywhere from 5-20V.

It's not magic when step down DC-DC converters take as much space as power negotiation crap and all that's really needed is single 20 volts. Look at new ATX standardization development with proposals to leave only 12 volts, dropping 5 and 3.3 - that's the right way to standardize on power delivery. What USB-C is doing is not standardization, but an attempt to undermine standardization to profit from selling expensive…

ATX isn't comparable. The power supply producers and consumers work together. USB is meant to power a vast array of devices that simply can't all be aligned to a single voltage.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#380

Post by jessaustin »

floatingatoll wrote: post #308
dheera wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish there were legal protections around this. Using a standard plug means it should accept the standard for that plug.

I wish the same about people who sell adapters for plugging 15A electrical devices into 25A electrical outlets. Sadly, the legal burden is placed exclusively on the buyer (via electrical code).

I don't see how such a product would be useful for anyone. At least in USA, anywhere a 25A circuit is available, a 15A circuit is also available. The converse (using a 25A device on a 15A circuit) would be useful, but also wouldn't be dangerous in any way.
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