My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison • Hacker News Board

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#61

Post by jonny_eh » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:31 PM UTC

s_dev wrote: post #31

caseyscottmckay wrote: post #8

We need more of this. A criminal record in the US is a curse for life, leaving former criminals with little chance at success and little to live for. People without much to live for are dangerous. We should help our former criminals rather than condemn them for life--it benefits us all.

>A criminal record in the US is a curse for life The US system probably is overly harsh -- in Ireland it's probaby overly lenient and the pendulum affect is that we've criminals being called in to court with literally hundreds of prior convictions and then they're let off with suspended sentences and then go straight back to what they were doing. Equally frustrating -- to see the guilty just walk off and laugh as it…

As with everything, there is a balance. It requires everlasting vigilance.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#62

Post by sebmellen » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:31 PM UTC

nendroid wrote: post #34

staticassertion wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather hire a criminal (depending on the crime, obviously) than, say, a racist, especially given how many laws I disagree with.

You say this, but most prison time is done for extreme crime that everyone agrees with. In addition this, prison time is usually reserved for not just crimes we agree with but crimes we all agree are extreme. Case in point for this specific case it was violent crime, which I'm sure we can all agree is way worse than a racist tweet.

I would hope that all agree a violent crime is worse than a racist tweet. However, there is a sentiment of sympathy afforded to murderers (that they're somehow deserving of rehabilitation) which is not always extended to those who have tweeted racist things.

Perhaps this comes because a murder can be seen as a sad result of circumstances. Perhaps the criminal only had to murder because they had a bad upbringing and needed the cash and it was a horrible mistake. On the other hand, people perceived as racist are permanently marked as being ideologically dangerous. Mainly, I think this comes because racist tweeters can be seen as more directly responsible for their actions than a murderer.

Of course, this line of reasoning is nonsense, but it appears to be quite common.

Jon Ronson has a great TED talk about this, titled "How one tweet can ruin your life": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAIP6fI0NAI. I would recommend that the grandparent post watch this.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#63

Post by themomaster » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:31 PM UTC

ansible wrote: post #30

thelean12 wrote: post #14

There are a lot of people saying they're in favor of this type of thing. And for non-violent offenses I'd probably also be on board. But this person committed a "serious, violent crime" that sent them to prison for 13 years. Are you comfortable sitting next to someone who is capable of a "serious, violent crime"? Are there certain crimes that cross the line for you? Would you expect your employer to inform you of the…

I am quite capable of "serious, violent crime". Have I ever done so? No. I've had a relatively easy life, all things considered. I've never been truly desperate. I've never wondered where my next meal will come from. I never made any major mistakes, like messing around with drugs or alcohol. I'm not planning on committing any violent crimes, ever. But I could. You should beware.

^This is why I use Puppet.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#64

Post by cjalmeida » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:31 PM UTC

thelean12 wrote: post #14

There are a lot of people saying they're in favor of this type of thing. And for non-violent offenses I'd probably also be on board. But this person committed a "serious, violent crime" that sent them to prison for 13 years. Are you comfortable sitting next to someone who is capable of a "serious, violent crime"? Are there certain crimes that cross the line for you? Would you expect your employer to inform you of the…

Most of us here had an easy life. But for some born on the wrong neighborhood, gang violence and drug trafficking is part of daily life.

A couple of bad decisions made as a teen and you’ll see yourself involved in violent events at a young age.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#65

Post by jonny_eh » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:32 PM UTC

schoolornot wrote: post #22

caseyscottmckay wrote: post #8

We need more of this. A criminal record in the US is a curse for life, leaving former criminals with little chance at success and little to live for. People without much to live for are dangerous. We should help our former criminals rather than condemn them for life--it benefits us all.

I wonder what kind of community reaction there will be if Hans Reiser submits kernel patches after getting released/paroled.

I think as long as he did his time and behaves in the community, he'd be accepted. At least that's what I'd hope.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#66

Post by AlexTWithBeard » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:32 PM UTC

nickff wrote: post #11

caseyscottmckay wrote: post #8

We need more of this. A criminal record in the US is a curse for life, leaving former criminals with little chance at success and little to live for. People without much to live for are dangerous. We should help our former criminals rather than condemn them for life--it benefits us all.

People are losing their jobs because of offhand tweets completely unrelated to their occupation; how can we expect that a blemish as big as a criminal record will be overlooked?

You don't understand.

One is an accidental mishap due to the extreme cruelty and unfairness of our modern society.

The other one is a sincerely held unacceptable belief which endangers the progress of humanity.

/s

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#67

Post by rdimartino » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:32 PM UTC

nendroid wrote: post #34

staticassertion wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather hire a criminal (depending on the crime, obviously) than, say, a racist, especially given how many laws I disagree with.

You say this, but most prison time is done for extreme crime that everyone agrees with. In addition this, prison time is usually reserved for not just crimes we agree with but crimes we all agree are extreme. Case in point for this specific case it was violent crime, which I'm sure we can all agree is way worse than a racist tweet.

I'm not sure your statements about prison time are accurate, at least in the US.

According to the Federal Bureau of Prisons, 46.2% of inmates are in for drug offenses[1] and there is definitely disagreement about whether that should be a crime, let alone an extreme crime. Additionally, 78.6% of inmates are serving sentences longer than 5 years[2], which by necessity means that a large portion of those are for drug offenses.

[1] https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offen... [2] https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_sente...

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#68

Post by meheleventyone » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:32 PM UTC

s_dev wrote: post #31

caseyscottmckay wrote: post #8

We need more of this. A criminal record in the US is a curse for life, leaving former criminals with little chance at success and little to live for. People without much to live for are dangerous. We should help our former criminals rather than condemn them for life--it benefits us all.

>A criminal record in the US is a curse for life The US system probably is overly harsh -- in Ireland it's probaby overly lenient and the pendulum affect is that we've criminals being called in to court with literally hundreds of prior convictions and then they're let off with suspended sentences and then go straight back to what they were doing. Equally frustrating -- to see the guilty just walk off and laugh as it…

Out of interest what proportion of criminals let off with suspended sentences have hundreds of convictions?

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#69

Post by anon55555 » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:32 PM UTC

Hey, posting anonymously here since this hits close to home; as I'm also a felon. I learned to program _after_ all my legal troubles started, and my sentence wasn't _nearly_ as long as this (6 months, drug crime).

I 100% honestly feel like tech saved my life. My first job immediately gave me hope that I'm not defined by my past. Went from working in a factory making $7/hr (about 10 yrs ago), to now grossing well over 6 figures (currently making west coast type wages).

Run a small consultancy now and can even subcontract out work to a few friends. I know there's alot of talk on how to make the industry more inclusive (which I agree we need to do better at). But I can't think of any industry as meritocratic as tech.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#70

Post by alex_young » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:32 PM UTC

nendroid wrote: post #34

staticassertion wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather hire a criminal (depending on the crime, obviously) than, say, a racist, especially given how many laws I disagree with.

You say this, but most prison time is done for extreme crime that everyone agrees with. In addition this, prison time is usually reserved for not just crimes we agree with but crimes we all agree are extreme. Case in point for this specific case it was violent crime, which I'm sure we can all agree is way worse than a racist tweet.

There are nearly half a million people incarcerated in the US for nonviolent drug offenses [0].

Do you think we all agree that these are extreme crimes?

[0] https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2020.html