USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess • Hacker News Board

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#171

Post by delfinom » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 2:49 PM UTC

The problem is everyone is trying to make USB-C everything while completely ignoring price points. Nobody wants a fucking $100 cable that's going to wear out for basic fuck-it purposes. So you start to create production segmentation. Then it couples into directly shit like Microsoft refusing to implement PD in Surface Books because they do not trust on the market cables to safely handle the 100W they need without catching fire and there's no way to verify. Or do you what other vendors do and "fork" PD so that you can make sure both devices are yours strictly.

Sadly it seems there is a march to making cables even more expensive to duck tape on more solutions.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#172

Post by kome » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 2:49 PM UTC

it's funny, because for me USB-C is not a thing in my life, everything I use is basically standard usb (mouse, keyboard, stick) - and for headphones i still use the jack.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#173

Post by Spooks » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 2:49 PM UTC

vr46 wrote: post #23

jeremymcanally wrote: post #4

Really? I find it to be a game changer for me. The fact that my laptop, Switch, iPad, and several other devices can all share a charge has made my life much easier. I can just sprinkle a few of them throughout the house and never be without power. Before it was always a hunt to find a cable, or I had to be in [x] room to charge [y] device because that's where the charger lived. Plus, I can charge my MacBook on either…

Aha - you may find that your Switch CANNOT in fact share a charge - Nintendo's port is not necessarily safe to use with anything but its supplied charger. And I've just learned this lesson with a $60 bill from Nintendo repair after the port went pop and couldn't charge the device. I only have reputable chargers in the house from Apple and one from Anker aside from the Nintendo's own. All my apple kit works fine off t…

Charging is fine, the issue is using under wattage 3rd party docks or using a bad charger for the dock while playing, as it pull more power when it is in dock mode.

Charging it has never been an issue for anyone and this is the first I heard being a charging issue

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#174

Post by FatalLogic » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 2:49 PM UTC

dafoex wrote: post #152

FatalLogic wrote: post #64

Would it be possible for our existing USB-C interfaces (software and hardware) to provide more information to the user? I mean, could the UI tell us: (1) Your external device is and it requests power at 12V, minimum 15W, up to 40W, and it requests data at up to 100Mbps down/5Mbps up (2) Your cable promises to accept power at up to 25W, and data at up to 40Mbps bidirectional (3) I can offer power up to 60W, and data u…

And for manufacturers to accurately label what their devices can do, so there's no surprises when you read one thing only to find out its false and you can't get HDMI out of your phone

That would also be good. The possibility that a USB-C device might support some extended standard, for video or high bandwidth or high power and so on, has been abused for marketing purposes, and now this is damaging the public perception of USB-C

There would still be surprises when you plug in the wrong kind of cable, unfortunately, even if the device is honestly described

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#175

Post by edoceo » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 2:49 PM UTC

derefr wrote: post #108

reader_mode wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why ? You have the same plug but it's not actually compatible - this to me is a good example of confusion - I would be the first to assume you can charge it with whatever USB-C power cable available and not bother checking the docs.

Because it could have happened just as well with any other plug. It could have been a non-conforming micro-USB charging port. Either way, it would have nothing to do with “the mess that is USB-C” (i.e. the inability to identify which of the various wire protocols that work over USB-C cables that a USB-C port follows/supports), because such a port isn’t following any of the USB-C-cable compatible standards. It’d be li…

ADB and PS/2 didn't look the same. Yes, small circles but IIRC ADB is 4 pins, PS/2 is 6 - and neither could be plugged to the other.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#176

Post by reader_mode » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 2:49 PM UTC

derefr wrote: post #163

reader_mode wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because it could have happened just as well with any other plug. It could have been a non-conforming micro-USB charging port. But if you have a standard aren't you supposed to enforce stuff like this ? Precisely to avoid the confusion and protect your standard.

The USB Consortium’s licensing strategy is to restrict what people can label with the USB logo, by holding trademark over that logo. You then have to work out an arrangement with them, in order for your hardware to proclaim itself as USB-compatible by using the logo. This is their “in” to ensure you’re doing USB correctly. The Nintendo charging port is not labelled with a USB logo. It’s fundamentally not a USB-C port…

Don't they have IP rights over port design ?

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#177

Post by IshKebab » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 2:50 PM UTC

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #37

It's honestly such a complete joke it's not even funny anymore. My USB-C MacBook Pro with it's pathetic two ports that my work bought for me is now old enough that the battery is starting to fail and we're still in a world where this single cable for power, screen and ports just doesn't seem to really exist. I'm starting to be convinced the port is fundamentally flawed, dongles with multiple ports are never reliable…

> we're still in a world where this single cable for power, screen and ports just doesn't seem to really exist

It does. I have a Macbook Pro that connects to two screens, a keyboard, mouse and ethernet via a single USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 cable. The fact that not all USB-C cables are Thunderbolt 3 cables is annoying, but at least they label them pretty clearly.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#178

Post by billpg » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 2:50 PM UTC

sq_ wrote: post #50

jeremymcanally wrote: post #4

Really? I find it to be a game changer for me. The fact that my laptop, Switch, iPad, and several other devices can all share a charge has made my life much easier. I can just sprinkle a few of them throughout the house and never be without power. Before it was always a hunt to find a cable, or I had to be in [x] room to charge [y] device because that's where the charger lived. Plus, I can charge my MacBook on either…

100% agree with you on how convenient USB-C can make things. Being able to carry one 60-90w brick with multiple USB-C PD outputs and charge pretty much all of my devices off of it is amazing. On the other hand, I would say that all of us here on HN probably aren't the target audience for this article. Collectively, I'd say HN readers are likely to understand that different USB-C bricks, cables, and devices are going…

Are those people who buy cheap cables in the wrong?

Maybe I do need to buy those gold-plated cables.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#179

Post by megous » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 2:50 PM UTC

CubsFan1060 wrote: post #99

baconandeggs wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are not all the issues. For example, you can't get a usb-c hub to get more usb-c ports, they don't exist.

Yeah, I've noticed that too. That mystifies me.

Each port can accept or give power (at various voltages) potentially or act as data sink/source (determined on connection), or have alt modes.

Such device would be either quite "fun" to use, unless it had type C ports marked with dedicated functionality, so you'd have to be careful what device you plug to what port.

AFAIK there's no protocol to control other ports via PD from the port you'd connect to the "main" device (like your laptop). So the behavior would be all pretty random, or the ports would have to be fixed in function.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#180

Post by snuxoll » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 2:50 PM UTC

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #37

It's honestly such a complete joke it's not even funny anymore. My USB-C MacBook Pro with it's pathetic two ports that my work bought for me is now old enough that the battery is starting to fail and we're still in a world where this single cable for power, screen and ports just doesn't seem to really exist. I'm starting to be convinced the port is fundamentally flawed, dongles with multiple ports are never reliable…

I bought a Dell UltraSharp U2719D explicitly for use with my work-issued 2019 MBP and it’s worked a treat. Plug one cable in, the display lights up, laptop starts charging, USB devices attached to the monitor connect, just like that.

Since the only place I “dock up” is at home it’s been a perfect solution. This right here is where USB-C should be heading, not annoying docks you need to lug around.