Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission • Hacker News Board

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#641

Post by WJW » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 6:01 PM UTC

monoideism wrote: post #142

nemo44x wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s generally a small but vocal group. And I wouldn’t call it politics so much as activism. A sort of religious zeal has made its way into our institutions like schools and universities. Some people have taken to it like a missionary would religion and believe it’s their duty to spread the word everywhere at all times. The Inquisition was no different in this regard. You just have to read what the activism says. It…

> It’s far beyond politics and more a religion than anything. I believe this is a result of the fact that Americans have turned away from organized religion in recent years (note: I'm not religious myself). There seems to be something deep inside of most people that requires a shared spiritual experience. Wokism has emerged to fill that need.

There seems to be an obvious counterexample in the rest of the Western nations (ie Canada, Australia, most of western Europe) that have experienced a similar reduction in organized religion but have not seen a corresponding rise to political division. Certainly not to the degree that the USA has.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#642

Post by itsoktocry » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 6:02 PM UTC

paulgb wrote: post #223

tossAfterUsing wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When we have had presidents who were willing to condemn white supremacy, we tended not to call on CEOs to. https://twitter.com/robsmithonline/status/131113297546835968...

Last night he was given the chance to unequivocally condemn the Proud Boys and instead told them to "stand back and stand by", which the group themselves has taken as a rally cry. Just like how after Charlottesville, white supremacists took his ambiguous response as a sign of approval. He doesn't condemn, he validates with just enough deniability that people can make lists like the one you posted, while everyone who…

>Last night he was given the chance to unequivocally condemn the Proud Boys and instead told them to "stand back and stand by

Let's be honest here: if Trump had "unequivocally" said "I condemn White Supremacy", what would have happened, practically? Do you think for a second that the media would have suddenly "let him off the hook"? Problem solved? No more white supremacy talk?

There is footage of him disavowing the KKK, and David Duke, going back 20 years, believe it or not. Has it made a difference?

The fact that question was even asked demonstrates just how far the US political system has fallen. Kind of embarrassing. The fact that Trump doesn't simply repeat the condemnation -- for whatever that's worth -- is sad and polarizing. But let's not pretend it changes anyone's opinion on anything.

>He doesn't condemn, he validates with just enough deniability

Much like many Democrats did with regards to the looting and burning of cities.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#643

Post by eli » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 6:02 PM UTC

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #599

tshaddox wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wanting to separate engineering work from reality is precisely what Barrin92 is saying should not and can not be done. Engineering work isn't just some insulated game that gives you tokens to buy things you need in the real world. The engineering work is itself part of the real world.

Everything is part of the real world. Would you go to a mattress company and demand that they make it harder for your political opponents to get a good night's sleep?

I dunno, but I bet in the long run the mattress company that allows internal debate outperforms one that silences it.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#644

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 6:02 PM UTC

thelock85 wrote: post #342

This won’t end well. The moment Coinbase articulates anything remotely related to an underlying set of values or business ethics, the accusations of politicization (and hypocrisy) will come flying. I believe that corporations are not governed or regulated to support activism writ large, but there has to be room for dissent (even if it ends in separation). How else do you arrive at a shared definition of “economic fre…

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Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#645

Post by md_ » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 6:02 PM UTC

subsubzero wrote: post #503

Barrin92 wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>All I want is to just focus on engineering and ship features/improvements. Yeah if there wasn't the pesky world around all the engineering and we could all just stare at our stock options while we sit in our gentrified neighbourhoods and pretend the world doesn't exist. You can ignore politics but politics doesn't ignore you. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil is an unworthy attitude for a democratic citizen.…

Your strawman argument is invalid to what I said. I spend an inordinate amount of time researching each candidates views and each propositions pros and cons. Before election day I usually set aside a day or two to deep dive into every choice I make. I take voting very seriously as people have died to give me the luxury to vote. These actions all occur outside of the office where they belong. That being said leave pol…

This may sound like a troll, but how do we delineate what politics belong in the office and what do not?

As I noted elsewhere in this thread, I think it's more ambiguous these days, not less.

As a few concrete examples:

* Say I refuse to buy Chinese-made goods because I oppose the treatment of Uyghurs in Xinjiang. What do I do if my employer considers doing business in China? Should I not mention this, because it's "political"?

  * What if it's 1933, and my employer is IBM, and the customer is Nazi Germany?

* Say I oppose H1B visas because they take jobs away from American citizens, and my employer considers expanding the H1B workforce. Should I speak out against it, or hold my tongue because my motives are "political"?

* Say I believe in equal rights for gay couples, and my employer is considering expanding health coverage to same-sex partners. Should I speak out in favor of it?

In each of these examples, it seems to me there's a spectrum of options, ranging from:

A. No constraints on in-office behavior; I speak out about anything.

B. In the office, I am purely a shareholder-profit-maximizing robot.

I don't think either of those extremes is very satisfying—I expect many of us would say it is noble to oppose selling adding machines to Nazi Germany, but that we'd have many more questions when it comes to some of the other examples.

Unfortunately, I think that means that there's no simple answer here. "No politics in the workplace" can result in ghastly, amoral outcomes (selling adding machines to the Nazis).

But "every culture war, all the time" is a great way to be a dick.

I think my personal code here is, "try not to be a dick." Past that point, I don't think there are easy answers.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#646

Post by rjkennedy98 » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 6:02 PM UTC

lwansbrough wrote: post #500

subsubzero wrote: post #465

I may want to apply to coinbase. I am really fed up with 'activist' employees and the toxic environment they bring. All I want is to just focus on engineering and ship features/improvements. Bringing politics to the office(thanks Google!) has been one of the worst things to happen in the 21st century for tech companies. Interestingly enough google has been going through absolute hell with these cancerous employees an…

A lot of harm has been done by humans “just doing their job.” The world needs people who are willing to stand against those who take no interest in weighing the morality of their work. For example, AGI will be built either by accident or intentionally by sociopaths at Google, etc. All decisions at a certain scale are inevitably political, and choosing to ignore the politics in those contexts is in itself a political…

Yes, humans have created harm "just doing their job", such as purposefully making addictive apps like youtube or social media sites like Facebook that make people depressed, or gathering vast amounts of personal data for targeted advertising.

Except this has nothing to do with that. It has do with a group of people that insist that everyone get behind their pet cause and use their job to promote whatever activist belief they have - and negatively affect everyone else who may not agree with them.

I'd stand behind anyone who wants to protest their companies business model - like the executive at Amazon who protested the treatment of a union organizer (which was racist and absolutely disgusting). I'm not going to get behind the culture of activism which has nothing to do with civil disobedience.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#647

Post by mesozoic » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 6:03 PM UTC

I love that I wish my company and more companies would be totally apolitical and now I'm very interested in working for Coinbase so kudos.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#648

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 6:04 PM UTC

ptero wrote: post #513

Barrin92 wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>All I want is to just focus on engineering and ship features/improvements. Yeah if there wasn't the pesky world around all the engineering and we could all just stare at our stock options while we sit in our gentrified neighbourhoods and pretend the world doesn't exist. You can ignore politics but politics doesn't ignore you. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil is an unworthy attitude for a democratic citizen.…

The comment author does not advocate ignoring the world, he wants to separate his engineering work from politics and thus wants to look for employers who do not push a particular political program on him. Which seems a perfectly valid (and attractive to me) view. You cannot ignore your dreams, your health, your family, social ills, the air quality, politics and a myriad of other things in the world around you. But if…

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Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#649

Post by j4nt4b » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 6:04 PM UTC

spicymaki wrote: post #640

j4nt4b wrote: post #542

If employees want to influence a company's political stance, then they've already lost, because employees are not shareholders. It's not their call to make. They would have a leg to stand on if they were part of a worker's cooperative, because then they'd be owners. The juicy job market for tech workers may obscure this fundamental fact, but when the rubber hits the road any overpaid engineer is still considered hire…

I was looking for a response in general to this and I think your comment nails it for me. If you want to drive societal change you need to get off the bench and commit, and please do because the world needs more people to be engaged.

Thank you. One way I look at it is, imagine working for somebody who pays you in political campaign donations to causes of your choice, then takes the rest of the money you've made for them and doubles that contribution for the other side. It's really a no-win situation for the worker.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#650

Post by Apocryphon » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 6:05 PM UTC

gambler wrote: post #627

Barrin92 wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'the office' or the firm today, is for better or worse our primary means by which we can exercise influence. That is why tech workers are bringing politics into the firm in the first place , because they realise, rightly, that it is one of the most potent channels to actually exercise change, and that's why so many people want to keep politics out of it. The workplace is the one space where your political opponent ca…

You haven't really provided any arguments for why converting companies (entities providing goods and services) into mini political parties is a good idea . Anyone can yell about "status quo" and "change". In reality, "status quo" is frequently an ill defined concept and the benefits of change depend entirely on what kind of change it is. When I work for a company, I provide my labor in exchange for payment. I am then…

The post doesn't argue for converting companies into political parties, merely that it's natural for workers to be politically active at work, given the continued atomization of modern society making the workplace a default place for political activity, especially since so much of day to day life and social activity takes place there.

It's also a straw man to talk about corporate execs leading the activism, the post was talking about the workers themselves.