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Google/Fitbit will monetise health data and harm consumers

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Re: Google/Fitbit will monetise health data and harm consumers

#61

Post by frenchyatwork »

shadowgovt wrote: post #55
eptcyka wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if it'd make sense to have a plugin that'd share ad links in a p2p network just to screw with these people.

That's click-fraud, and Google at least attempts to identify it (so they're not charging for false ad views). No idea if they share the "That click was fraud" signal with their clients for this kind of display ad.

I think that calling ad-sharing "click-fraud" is a little ridiculous. I can understand why someone would call an extension like AdNauseam click-fraud, but this would presumably be people legitimately clicking on the ad.

Re: Google/Fitbit will monetise health data and harm consumers

#62

Post by luckylion »

shadowgovt wrote: post #49
tehjoker wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the user clicks on specially targeted ads, they reveal themselves to be part of the group and are individually identifiable.

To a first approximation, yes. There isn't any authentication around following an ad link, so technically anyone could click the ad. But practically, no; nobody's going to randomly click an ad link someone else handed them for funsies. In the common case, the ad company will be able to do conversions on the target demo (and make strong assumptions about the target demo, even if Google doesn't explicitly leak that dat…

Don't forget that Google allows some ad buyers to run their own JS inside the app. They could embed additional tracking and would get the hit without the user even clicking.

Re: Google/Fitbit will monetise health data and harm consumers

#63

Post by mchusma »

Health privacy, while kind of important Ina vacuum, is maybe the most overrated issue of our day.

Not only do I not care if my health data is out there but I wish it were.

Right now healthcare is barely using data, it's absurd. Let's focus on making good diagnostic AI preventative medicine to let people live forever.

Re: Google/Fitbit will monetise health data and harm consumers

#64

Post by Avicebron »

mchusma wrote: post #63

Health privacy, while kind of important Ina vacuum, is maybe the most overrated issue of our day. Not only do I not care if my health data is out there but I wish it were. Right now healthcare is barely using data, it's absurd. Let's focus on making good diagnostic AI preventative medicine to let people live forever.

And when you can't get insurance coverage because said AI says you have a disqualifying condition?

Re: Google/Fitbit will monetise health data and harm consumers

#65

Post by tqi »

shadowgovt wrote: post #41

The argument they're making here is a little subtle, but it tracks. They're not claiming Google will hand out a user's biometrics to insurance companies or other parties. They're claiming Google will offer biometrically-based signal as an ad discrimination channel. At that point, they don't have to hand out the data to allow insurance companies to discriminate; insurance companies could set up targeted ads for Cadill…

This is called risk selection, and is already a common practice [1] that doesn't require much in the way of "health data" [2]. I suspect that 80% of the effect can be achieved via "simple" methods like advertising on health and fitness related sites or keywords, partnering with gyms to advertise to members, etc. ACA has some provisions to help address these incentives [3], though it's unclear how effective they are.

The Privacy / Big Tech angle is attention grabbing, but is grossly missing the point. In my opinion, the reality is we need to decide if this type of discrimination is something we as a society want to regulate or not.

[1] https://www.nber.org/papers/w19198 [2] https://www.federalreserve.gov/econresdata/feds/2015/files/2... [3] https://www.kff.org/health-reform/issue-brief/explaining-hea...

Re: Google/Fitbit will monetise health data and harm consumers

#66

Post by shadowgovt »

luckylion wrote: post #62
shadowgovt wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To a first approximation, yes. There isn't any authentication around following an ad link, so technically anyone could click the ad. But practically, no; nobody's going to randomly click an ad link someone else handed them for funsies. In the common case, the ad company will be able to do conversions on the target demo (and make strong assumptions about the target demo, even if Google doesn't explicitly leak that dat…

Don't forget that Google allows some ad buyers to run their own JS inside the app. They could embed additional tracking and would get the hit without the user even clicking.

Not in a way they reveals demographics; that JS is sandboxed and can't generally figure out why the ad was run.

There's room for abuse, but Google will slap wrists of advertisers who try it.

Re: Google/Fitbit will monetise health data and harm consumers

#67

Post by darkwizard42 »

Avicebron wrote: post #64
mchusma wrote: post #63

Health privacy, while kind of important Ina vacuum, is maybe the most overrated issue of our day. Not only do I not care if my health data is out there but I wish it were. Right now healthcare is barely using data, it's absurd. Let's focus on making good diagnostic AI preventative medicine to let people live forever.

And when you can't get insurance coverage because said AI says you have a disqualifying condition?

Then solve the real underlying problem...insurance... NOT the segmentation of valuable health information that could help advance medical discoveries (with that data being handled properly)

Re: Google/Fitbit will monetise health data and harm consumers

#68

Post by alienfilesystem »

I'm going to come across here as an odd outlier, and that's OK. I accept it. Being in IT for 20 years has shown me that none of these companies can be trusted. Since I have to have a mobile phone, I chose Apple. I don't believe that there are "lesser evils". You're evil or you're not. Full stop. I do my best to use open source tools (save iPhone) in my house. Granted, there are no open source TVs, Roku's, etc, but they are not tracking me. My TV is set to be dumb, I don't use "real" information when I sign up for transient things. I use email aliases for everything with Fastmail. I have no apps save the ones that ship with the phone and I don't use the health app. I use the phone, texting, and camera. That's it. I don't have an iCloud account.

The field of companies is narrowing with FAANG buying up everything of value or anything that may threaten them. I get it. It's all about money. While I don't agree with everything that Richard Stallman says, he's right more often than not. We are increasingly giving our lives to FAANG. The tracking is insidious. The sharing of information is insidious. We can fight back should we wish. But how many people are willing to give up their conveniences for their freedoms? I'd wager not too many. I'll admit I bought a flip phone for the purposes of avoiding any virus apps that may be required in future should that happen. I just want to stay off the radar and I have a right to do so.

Re: Google/Fitbit will monetise health data and harm consumers

#69

Post by throwaway_pdp09 »

alienfilesystem wrote: post #68

I'm going to come across here as an odd outlier, and that's OK. I accept it. Being in IT for 20 years has shown me that none of these companies can be trusted. Since I have to have a mobile phone, I chose Apple. I don't believe that there are "lesser evils". You're evil or you're not. Full stop. I do my best to use open source tools (save iPhone) in my house. Granted, there are no open source TVs, Roku's, etc, but th…

Mine is to be an opinion-only post but...

> You're evil or you're not. Full stop.

... I'm afraid I can't agree.

Re: Google/Fitbit will monetise health data and harm consumers

#70

Post by Dirlewanger »

shadowgovt wrote: post #41

The argument they're making here is a little subtle, but it tracks. They're not claiming Google will hand out a user's biometrics to insurance companies or other parties. They're claiming Google will offer biometrically-based signal as an ad discrimination channel. At that point, they don't have to hand out the data to allow insurance companies to discriminate; insurance companies could set up targeted ads for Cadill…

>They're not claiming Google will hand out a user's biometrics to insurance companies or other parties.

Make no mistake though: those days are coming. It's just a matter of how soon. And no government will give a shit to stop it.

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