Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission • Hacker News Board

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#411

Post by PragmaticPulp » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 3:36 PM UTC

_fat_santa wrote: post #334

ldd wrote: post #312

I will offer a personal take on keeping politics out of my 1-man video game company. In theory, I am all for it. I do not use hashtags on twitter, or openly support any ideologies. However, as a light brown dude whose parents immigrated here to Canada, my existence itself is a political statement (in support of legal immigration) that is bound to offend people. I try, to the extent that is possible, to not say politi…

Just keep in mind Twitter is a piss poor reflection of society. There are some radical ideas on Twitter, but ask people in person what they actually think and everyone will sing a different tune.

This is one of the bigger problems I encountered when mentoring junior engineers: Many of them grew up consuming a firehose of hyperbolic Twitter and Reddit content, thinking that it was an accurate representation of the real world. Worse yet, some of them essentially learned their social skills from Twitter debates and Reddit threads, mistaking angry online arguments for normal adult conversation.

Fortunately, most of them are quick to pick up on the reality that they’ve been misled, but a small minority try to turn the workplace into an extension of a Twitter flame war at every opportunity.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#412

Post by arcticbull » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 3:36 PM UTC

deeeeplearning wrote: post #405

wwright wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I (and many others) are of the opinion that you can’t truly be apolitical; claiming to be so is its own form of politics (and generally one that supports the status quo). Politics is ultimately about how we engage and collaborate with each other as a society, not just which “party” you like. The very act of being a company is very relative to the laws and regulations your country has, which are of course determined b…

>I (and many others) are of the opinion that you can’t truly be apolitical Well frankly you and many others in this country are morons. The past few years are evidence of that.

Personal attacks aren't welcome here.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#413

Post by telaelit » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 3:36 PM UTC

Being “apolitical” is of itself a political decision to uphold the status quo, which is a problem considering how racist, sexist, and classist the status quo is. I would 100% take the exit package, I wouldn’t want to work for a company that’s okay with the status quo. I got into tech to make people’s lives better, not to help oppressors oppress their victims more efficiently. But that’s just my opinion.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#414

Post by trident1000 » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 3:37 PM UTC

Zenbit_UX wrote: post #120

Why is a company wanting to be apolitical is controversial? That should be the default, is this an American thing like how masks and healthcare are controversial? I would expect a government to have proper separation from church and state, so why is it weird to want a company to separate politics and mission? I can't see any good coming from being in a work environment where the company supports a political issue I'm…

We essentially have terrorist organizations like the ACLU that hound companies until they meet their demands. Thats a primary reason why.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#415

Post by fourstar » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 3:38 PM UTC

baron_harkonnen wrote: post #289

chii wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can’t truly be apolitical; that's one of those "you're either with us or against us" type of deal - which is not the right way to deal with anything imho. You _can_ be apolitical - as in, you do not let your political views affect what you do. You keep your political views private. You do not try to change anyone else's political views as part of your job.

The view you just described is active support for the status quo. One fairly non-controversial part of the status quo right now is our dependence on fossil fuels and co2 emissions to keep our economy running. Saying "I'll keep my views private" means I'm giving an okay to what's happening now. If every individual shares the thinking at every company then it is impossible to even imagine how the most catastrophic clim…

> "Just do you job and don't voice contrary opinions" is a pretty radical political opinion if you ask me, so your definition of "apolitical" is only "A"-political because you are so intensely in opposition to non-status quo beliefs that you disregard them completely.

Which is your personal opinion on the matter. What do I suggest for you? Start your own company and allow your employees to have their political views expressed as part of your ethos (or Manifesto if you can relate more to that).

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#416

Post by koheripbal » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 3:39 PM UTC

Reedx wrote: post #365

Zenbit_UX wrote: post #120

Why is a company wanting to be apolitical is controversial? That should be the default, is this an American thing like how masks and healthcare are controversial? I would expect a government to have proper separation from church and state, so why is it weird to want a company to separate politics and mission? I can't see any good coming from being in a work environment where the company supports a political issue I'm…

> Why is a company wanting to be apolitical is controversial? It's wild. That was standard not long ago. Most companies, even in tech, were apolitical. Maybe there would be some watercooler chat near the election with that one coworker who was really into politics, but that was about it. People mostly didn't know or care what the politics of their coworkers were. If they did, it wasn't a big deal and would still be f…

Just before the 2016 election, we issued an internal memo that political and/or religious conversations were not appropriate.

Not a RULE, but guidance that it can be divisive and that folks should concentrate on work during work hours, whilst physically at work.

One person quit as a result - and, frankly, everyone was relieved. She was a hateful person that wouldn't shut up about her politics.

I agree - it's crazy that this is controversial. We are a much stronger and more unified company as a result of this policy.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#417

Post by diab0lic » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 3:39 PM UTC

baron_harkonnen wrote: post #289

chii wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can’t truly be apolitical; that's one of those "you're either with us or against us" type of deal - which is not the right way to deal with anything imho. You _can_ be apolitical - as in, you do not let your political views affect what you do. You keep your political views private. You do not try to change anyone else's political views as part of your job.

The view you just described is active support for the status quo. One fairly non-controversial part of the status quo right now is our dependence on fossil fuels and co2 emissions to keep our economy running. Saying "I'll keep my views private" means I'm giving an okay to what's happening now. If every individual shares the thinking at every company then it is impossible to even imagine how the most catastrophic clim…

> The view you just described is active support for the status quo.

I hear this all the time but I cannot for the life of me figure out why it is "active support" isn't it at most passive support? If you were actively supporting it, you'd be taking political actions and therefore not being apolitical?

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#418

Post by knorker » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 3:41 PM UTC

wwright wrote: post #127

Zenbit_UX wrote: post #120

Why is a company wanting to be apolitical is controversial? That should be the default, is this an American thing like how masks and healthcare are controversial? I would expect a government to have proper separation from church and state, so why is it weird to want a company to separate politics and mission? I can't see any good coming from being in a work environment where the company supports a political issue I'm…

I (and many others) are of the opinion that you can’t truly be apolitical; claiming to be so is its own form of politics (and generally one that supports the status quo). Politics is ultimately about how we engage and collaborate with each other as a society, not just which “party” you like. The very act of being a company is very relative to the laws and regulations your country has, which are of course determined b…

That's one way to see it. But it seems the general trend is that every company needs to be political on every issue.

Where employees seem to spend more time on social justice than building the product the company is selling.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#419

Post by PascLeRasc » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 3:42 PM UTC

username90 wrote: post #199

wwright wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I (and many others) are of the opinion that you can’t truly be apolitical; claiming to be so is its own form of politics (and generally one that supports the status quo). Politics is ultimately about how we engage and collaborate with each other as a society, not just which “party” you like. The very act of being a company is very relative to the laws and regulations your country has, which are of course determined b…

> I (and many others) are of the opinion that you can’t truly be apolitical; claiming to be so is its own form of politics (and generally one that supports the status quo). If someone just does their job with people no matter who they are then they are not political. Being gay is not political. Being trans is not political. Being black is not political. Saying that gays/trans/black people shouldn't exist or doesn't b…

My sister's husband is a software engineer at a bank, and the health insurance plan they use specifies that men can have their wife covered under the plan, rather than a gender-neutral spouse and it doesn't count civil unions. Now this has worked out fine for them, but the choice for the bank to use this healthcare plan means that same-sex couples don't have equal access. So just existing as a gay person can be political.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#420

Post by baryphonic » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 3:45 PM UTC

wwright wrote: post #127

Zenbit_UX wrote: post #120

Why is a company wanting to be apolitical is controversial? That should be the default, is this an American thing like how masks and healthcare are controversial? I would expect a government to have proper separation from church and state, so why is it weird to want a company to separate politics and mission? I can't see any good coming from being in a work environment where the company supports a political issue I'm…

I (and many others) are of the opinion that you can’t truly be apolitical; claiming to be so is its own form of politics (and generally one that supports the status quo). Politics is ultimately about how we engage and collaborate with each other as a society, not just which “party” you like. The very act of being a company is very relative to the laws and regulations your country has, which are of course determined b…

> I (and many others) are of the opinion that you can’t truly be apolitical; claiming to be so is its own form of politics (and generally one that supports the status quo).

This is a fairly untenable position. Suppose there is an alien civilization somewhere with a similarly complex organization as our own society. You have no stake or opinions in the outcomes of what they do. You might even have beliefs that might give rise to politics ("I don't want earth destroyed," for instance), but in a real sense, you are apolitical with respect to that civilization. That doesn't make you in favor of the status quo, it just means that you don't know or care what's going on there.

Bringing it closer to home, you'll realize that you have similar apolitical beliefs with respect to a small town in a neighboring country, or maybe the government policy of the Central African Republic.

You might object that in these cases, a person is by construction unaware of the goings-on in distant places; however, I think the contrary argument is more absurd. The contrary argument is that as soon as someone merely knows about a political issue, she is then forced to choose, without her consent, that she is in favor of the status quo. That's not a tenable way to treat people with respect, not to mention organize society. And loads of people intentionally ignore the goings-on in politics.

So then, if people can be apolitical about certain or even most issues, certainly someone could be apolitical about all but the most mundane issues (like the governance of a family).

Further, the status quo is not a political issue; it's the condition of living in some reality. Human collective action is only one component that shapes our status quo. Many are beyond human control. So the mere existence of a status quo does not imply that anyone "chooses" it.

That I think is the error. A person can have no opinion and withdraw from politics. That is apolitical. Constructing the concept in such a way that forces them to pick a side of a line in the sand excludes the middle ground, and is also profoundly disrespectful and unfair.