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Apple’s T2 security chip jailbreak

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Re: Apple’s T2 security chip jailbreak

#91

Post by rorykoehler »

rurban wrote: post #45
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd guess many in third-world countries buy second-hand Macbooks, as they have a reputation (at least in the past) for lasting a long time? And are there any first-world countries (except maybe the US^^) where a 13" Macbook is several times the average net monthly income? In Germany, for instance, the monthly average net wage (MANW) is €2500, while the price of a 13" Macbook starts at €1300. Italy: MANW is €1700, Spa…

You mixed that reputation up with Lenovo thinkpads. Apple keyboards break down after several years with the touchpad and butterfly keyboard disasters are even unusable afresh. You cannot replace anything, and are way overpriced. Thinkpads on the other hand are like Toyota's

My 2012 and 2009 Mbps run like new

Re: Apple’s T2 security chip jailbreak

#92

Post by coldtea »

starfallg wrote: post #55
ksec wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>By definition of the technology that is NAND storage, an SSD You see, I dont disagree. Apple was striving for an ideal that is not achievable. What they are aiming , trying and actually doing are three different thing.

> Apple was striving for an ideal that is not achievable They are aiming for planned obsolescence. The biggest competitor for new MacBooks are old MacBooks.

Consider that their machines maintain the biggest resale value in the PC market (pointing to less long-term issues) and keep working fine for most people for close to a decade or so (including demanding pros in video, music, and graphics), they're doing a bad job at it...

Re: Apple’s T2 security chip jailbreak

#93

Post by [deleted] »

Causality1 wrote: post #70
aunali1 wrote: post #35

Hi guys, I am part of the team working on all things T2. [1] The checkra1n support is just in a PoC state, it will successfully exploit and boot the T2. The payload support is partially broken, but being worked on. Additionally, we have SSH working over usbmuxd from a tethered device [2] and SSH working from macOS on device, with an SDK in the works [3]. Some key takeaways from the T2 being jailbroken: - Custom Bootl…

You guys are fighting the good fight for everything that owning hardware and being a user used to mean. Thank you.

[deleted]

Re: Apple’s T2 security chip jailbreak

#94

Post by yholio »

coldtea wrote: post #89
yholio wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such people would have no issue if they were to be provided with a 20 character secret code that allows rooting and fine grained security control. They would simply not enter it and rely on Apple's decisions for them. This pretty much kills the whole "intended" security line, the intent is user control.

> This pretty much kills the whole "intended" security line Only if the "20 character secret code" had the same security characteristics, which it doesn't.

It has the same security as the scenario of buying vs non buying a product for its alleged security: you either use it or you don't. If you do, you are greeted with copious warnings and voiding of warranty, so it would definitely be a conscious act.

Re: Apple’s T2 security chip jailbreak

#95

Post by metafunctor »

gspr wrote: post #85
kristofferR wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but to be fair, the same mechanism also blocks thieves from using and/or selling stolen Macs.

> True, but to be fair, the same mechanism also blocks thieves from using and/or selling stolen Macs. That would be a fair excuse if the mechanism was under the control of the machine's rightful owner.

What do you mean? As fas as preventing a thief from using a stolen Mac, it is under the owner's control.

Re: Apple’s T2 security chip jailbreak

#96

Post by johncolanduoni »

yholio wrote: post #61
aneutron wrote: post #11

The fact that Apple uses this chip to, among other things, block "unauthorized repair" (can't change a freaking SSD in 2020, really), makes me very happy that people are finding ways to break this chip to make repairs more accessible. On the other hand, this could have serious implications on the iOS security model for example. And I'm pretty sure someone is gonna run Doom on the touchbar in some months.

Sorry, but the only rational consumer response to a device that actively works against you is not to purchase it, not hack it. Once millions of people pay to be imprisoned on their own devices, the long game is lost no matter how good the hackers are, the firm has the upper hand and the resources to prevail in the long run. And I am perfectly happy to assert this as a political preference, and vote in office people t…

How does me (or anyone else) buying a MacBook affect your freedom and choices? Was there some extinction of e.g. Linux-capable devices I didn’t hear about? And if I actually want the security features, who are you to say that’s not an option for me?

Re: Apple’s T2 security chip jailbreak

#98

Post by amelius »

yholio wrote: post #61
aneutron wrote: post #11

The fact that Apple uses this chip to, among other things, block "unauthorized repair" (can't change a freaking SSD in 2020, really), makes me very happy that people are finding ways to break this chip to make repairs more accessible. On the other hand, this could have serious implications on the iOS security model for example. And I'm pretty sure someone is gonna run Doom on the touchbar in some months.

Sorry, but the only rational consumer response to a device that actively works against you is not to purchase it, not hack it. Once millions of people pay to be imprisoned on their own devices, the long game is lost no matter how good the hackers are, the firm has the upper hand and the resources to prevail in the long run. And I am perfectly happy to assert this as a political preference, and vote in office people t…

The main problem is that:

- on the one hand (I believe) developers would prefer owning more open devices (like Librem/Purism, Pine64 etc.)

- on the other hand they want to develop for the masses, which means they will need access to Apple hardware.

Re: Apple’s T2 security chip jailbreak

#99

Post by saagarjha »

filleokus wrote: post #49
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> run 'offline' dictionary attacks against secure enclave content. Isn't the T2 chip the only reason they can't do that:: because it sets a minimum time-limit and cooldown period on attempts to authenticate using the device passcode? So presumably rooting T2 and removing the artificial time limits and/or extracting KDF data would mean game-over because brute-forcing `[0-9]{4,8}`, with even the most expensive hash fun…

The Secure Enclave is just a part of the T2 chip. My understanding is that this is similar to if you jailbreak your iOS device, you won't get any special access to the Secure Enclave. And as I understand it, it's also the Secure Enclave that enforces the attempt limits.

That’s right, but the T2 chip is based on the A10 one and has the same Secure Enclave; this enclave is vulnerable to the blackbird exploit discovered recently.

Re: Apple’s T2 security chip jailbreak

#100

Post by johncolanduoni »

yholio wrote: post #77
fastball wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people buy iPhones / Macs because of the (intended) security provided by things like the T2 chip.

Such people would have no issue if they were to be provided with a 20 character secret code that allows rooting and fine grained security control. They would simply not enter it and rely on Apple's decisions for them. This pretty much kills the whole "intended" security line, the intent is user control.

Or perhaps Apple doesn’t want to have to build and support a complicated alternate signing mechanism that virtually none of their users want? I don’t see how a company should have an obligation to offer you exactly the product you want, particularly when there are tons of viable alternatives (which I’m guessing you’re using right now to type these messages).
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