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Apple’s T2 security chip jailbreak

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Re: Apple’s T2 security chip jailbreak

#81

Post by tachion »

rurban wrote: post #45
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd guess many in third-world countries buy second-hand Macbooks, as they have a reputation (at least in the past) for lasting a long time? And are there any first-world countries (except maybe the US^^) where a 13" Macbook is several times the average net monthly income? In Germany, for instance, the monthly average net wage (MANW) is €2500, while the price of a 13" Macbook starts at €1300. Italy: MANW is €1700, Spa…

You mixed that reputation up with Lenovo thinkpads. Apple keyboards break down after several years with the touchpad and butterfly keyboard disasters are even unusable afresh. You cannot replace anything, and are way overpriced. Thinkpads on the other hand are like Toyota's

One could say that you're mixing Thinkpads from IBM era, where they were really well made (my first A21m holds a special place in my heat till this day), Thinkpads from Lenovo that are plastic piece of garbage and MacBooks from Apple post keyboard change, that was indeed faulty, but it isn't anymore. There you go, I've fixed it for ya ;)

Re: Apple’s T2 security chip jailbreak

#82

Post by fastball »

yholio wrote: post #77
fastball wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people buy iPhones / Macs because of the (intended) security provided by things like the T2 chip.

Such people would have no issue if they were to be provided with a 20 character secret code that allows rooting and fine grained security control. They would simply not enter it and rely on Apple's decisions for them. This pretty much kills the whole "intended" security line, the intent is user control.

That's definitely a fair point! Though I think this could probably open you up to some MITM style attacks where someone intercepts a Macbook in transit and steals the root key that comes with it or something. Maybe not though, I guess it really depends on how you accomplish this.

But on the surface it does seem like that could work.

Re: Apple’s T2 security chip jailbreak

#84

Post by coldtea »

rurban wrote: post #45
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd guess many in third-world countries buy second-hand Macbooks, as they have a reputation (at least in the past) for lasting a long time? And are there any first-world countries (except maybe the US^^) where a 13" Macbook is several times the average net monthly income? In Germany, for instance, the monthly average net wage (MANW) is €2500, while the price of a 13" Macbook starts at €1300. Italy: MANW is €1700, Spa…

You mixed that reputation up with Lenovo thinkpads. Apple keyboards break down after several years with the touchpad and butterfly keyboard disasters are even unusable afresh. You cannot replace anything, and are way overpriced. Thinkpads on the other hand are like Toyota's

>Apple keyboards break down after several years with the touchpad and butterfly keyboard disasters are even unusable afresh. You cannot replace anything, and are way overpriced.

I have 10 and 15 year old iBooks and MacBooks and MacBook Pros with intact keyboards...

You mixed the issue with the butterfly BS keyboards in the past 2-3 years with the old Apple keyboards (which didn't just "break down"). The resale value of old Mac laptops I think speaks for itself related to that.

That said, Thinkpads are indeed built like Toyotas and have easy replacements.

Re: Apple’s T2 security chip jailbreak

#85

Post by gspr »

kristofferR wrote: post #20
aneutron wrote: post #11

The fact that Apple uses this chip to, among other things, block "unauthorized repair" (can't change a freaking SSD in 2020, really), makes me very happy that people are finding ways to break this chip to make repairs more accessible. On the other hand, this could have serious implications on the iOS security model for example. And I'm pretty sure someone is gonna run Doom on the touchbar in some months.

True, but to be fair, the same mechanism also blocks thieves from using and/or selling stolen Macs.

> True, but to be fair, the same mechanism also blocks thieves from using and/or selling stolen Macs.

That would be a fair excuse if the mechanism was under the control of the machine's rightful owner.

Re: Apple’s T2 security chip jailbreak

#86

Post by coldtea »

yholio wrote: post #61
aneutron wrote: post #11

The fact that Apple uses this chip to, among other things, block "unauthorized repair" (can't change a freaking SSD in 2020, really), makes me very happy that people are finding ways to break this chip to make repairs more accessible. On the other hand, this could have serious implications on the iOS security model for example. And I'm pretty sure someone is gonna run Doom on the touchbar in some months.

Sorry, but the only rational consumer response to a device that actively works against you is not to purchase it, not hack it. Once millions of people pay to be imprisoned on their own devices, the long game is lost no matter how good the hackers are, the firm has the upper hand and the resources to prevail in the long run. And I am perfectly happy to assert this as a political preference, and vote in office people t…

>Sorry, but the only rational consumer response to a device that actively works against you is not to purchase it, not hack it.

"Actively works against you" is your reading. I very much appreciate what the T2 does, and hope the next update will be even more difficult to hack (aside from its other functionality).

Re: Apple’s T2 security chip jailbreak

#87

Post by Daniel_sk »

Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #79
dividedbyzero wrote: post #56

I'm torn on this; on the one hand, the prospect of being able to circumvent things like unauthorized repair prevention down the line is neat, and who knows what people may be able to tease out of this (apparently quite powerful chip). So that's neat. But it also breaks Apple's security platform in a big way, since this should make Apple's biometry scheme in their Macbooks much weaker and FileVault a lot easier to cra…

Apple did actually screw the pooch on this one. Typically, it's criminally illegal to circumvent DRM in the US (and 99% of the rest of the world). However, there are also certain exemptions that have been granted, within the US only (other countries are not so lucky). The right to repair is one such exemption[1]. If Apple had separated security from first-party repair enforcement, then anyone found even attempting to…

I bet breaking DRM is legal in most parts of the world. Good luck to any company trying to sue an individual for breaking DRM. "Article 6.4 of the European Directive mandates Member States to ensure users can benefit from the copyright exceptions. This means that countries must have some kind of process in place to allow citizens to make copies of DRMed works." (https://fsfe.org/news/2019/news-20191113-01.en.html) Unfortunately in US the corporate has lobbied so hard to make EULA, DRM and others enforceable by law.

Re: Apple’s T2 security chip jailbreak

#88

Post by IntelMiner »

rimliu wrote: post #48
aneutron wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The goal was to aim for perfection, a machine that is so reliable it wouldn't need to repair in the first place. You will have to excuse me, but that is a load of bullcrap. Let's take the case that irritates me the most: The SSD. By definition of the technology that is NAND storage, an SSD will be able to operate "within norm" and without bit errors for so long. Rewrite for long enough and you'll see your data wavi…

Who is Linus Sebastian, why should I care about him, and why I should consider his case typical?

Linus Sebastian is the on screen presence behind "Linus Tech Tips" a Youtube channel of approximately 12 million subscribers

Re: Apple’s T2 security chip jailbreak

#89

Post by coldtea »

yholio wrote: post #77
fastball wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people buy iPhones / Macs because of the (intended) security provided by things like the T2 chip.

Such people would have no issue if they were to be provided with a 20 character secret code that allows rooting and fine grained security control. They would simply not enter it and rely on Apple's decisions for them. This pretty much kills the whole "intended" security line, the intent is user control.

>This pretty much kills the whole "intended" security line

Only if the "20 character secret code" had the same security characteristics, which it doesn't.

Re: Apple’s T2 security chip jailbreak

#90

Post by jamil7 »

rurban wrote: post #45
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd guess many in third-world countries buy second-hand Macbooks, as they have a reputation (at least in the past) for lasting a long time? And are there any first-world countries (except maybe the US^^) where a 13" Macbook is several times the average net monthly income? In Germany, for instance, the monthly average net wage (MANW) is €2500, while the price of a 13" Macbook starts at €1300. Italy: MANW is €1700, Spa…

You mixed that reputation up with Lenovo thinkpads. Apple keyboards break down after several years with the touchpad and butterfly keyboard disasters are even unusable afresh. You cannot replace anything, and are way overpriced. Thinkpads on the other hand are like Toyota's

eh, my 2013 rMBP is kicking a long pretty well. Kinda sluggish but no issues with the keyboard. It's been dropped a few times too and the screen cable disconnected at some point from a fall but was an easy fix.
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