Where can I buy one?
Seriously, I want one! (But it's probably too expensive!)
Great North Air Ambulance trials paramedic jet suit
71–80 of 89 posts
Re: Great North Air Ambulance trials paramedic jet suit
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
A hovercraft doesn’t fly not because the wing in ground effect but because it doesn’t have 6 degrees of freedom which constitutes flying. A sub or a torpedo can fly through the water just like an airplane or a missile do through air.
Flight is typically 4DOF: (throttle, pitch, roll, yaw). There is no horizontal or vertical 'strafing' ability.
The platform can move in the vertical and horizontal, e.g by exploiting a crosswind.
Re: Great North Air Ambulance trials paramedic jet suit
#73Pretty cool usage scenario, since everyone can imagine a flying hero coming in to save the day. That being said, this feels like a solution looking for a problem. I am sure there are specific areas of responsibility that would benefit from a rapidly deployable single medic carrying a small triage kit with no patient return capability, but they are probably few and far between (especially when you factor in the above…
It sort of depends a bit on cost and a bit on how one operates it doesn't it? Operations costs on a rescue helicopter can be $1500 - $5000/hr based on publicly available data. What is more, large helicopters can do harm with their down wash. So if you can have a suit, or two, or three sitting in the closet on standby then the cost to respond quickly to one of these events can be much lower than the cost of calling in…
Well I think the question becomes, what sort of situations are actually happening, and then what capability is needed to mitigate those situations? If an area's data says that there are enough people whose position we know, but because they didn't get rapid, low level stabalizing triage care they ended up dying then a system like this might make sense. But if most of the cases involve searching, higher level care, an eventual medevac anyways, or any combination of the above, a SAR organization is probably going to need a helicopter anyways. If you already have a helicopter with hoist capability, then it will probably be hard to make the math justify the additional expense.
While having a smaller fleet of helicopters induces a smaller number of critical failures, if the advantage is the amount of time it takes to get to a location, you'd need a lot of jetpacks to be spread out enough to beat a helicopter. With an advertised endurance of 5-10 minutes, this won't do more than get you a small hop to a remote location. The searching and most of the traversing is going to have to be done by some other vehicle. If every 4x4,truck or ground search party needs to have one of these (and be trained to operate it proficiently), I have a hard time believing that you aren't going to be quickly running an operation that's more expensive then a helo operation. That being said, maybe some areas could use this. Perhaps a place with canyons or cravasses, where people could fall down but rescuers could still mostly move rapidly using ground vehicles.
As far as the downwash, while it is a concern it's also something that can be managed. The heavier the aircraft (more equipment, endurance, and reliability) , the more downwash. This jetpack has a small down wash footprint (but I bet it's still really high under the jets since it's a pure thrust aircraft) but the tradeoff is in endurance and equipment.
But again, there might be some areas that could benefit from it, but I think it's a solution looking for a problem. Other than the gee wiz factor, I doubt any of the SAR agencies in the US would set up a system like this.
Re: Great North Air Ambulance trials paramedic jet suit
#74I love how every piece of new tech from robots, to drones to jet packs is sold as helping disaster relief and first responders. But then is actually actually adopted by the military to kill people.
Re: Great North Air Ambulance trials paramedic jet suit
#75I love how every piece of new tech from robots, to drones to jet packs is sold as helping disaster relief and first responders. But then is actually actually adopted by the military to kill people.
I always figured we saw the technology with disaster relief and first responders because of the military development not panning out as expected and companies seeking to recoup investment.
we don't see a lot of military programs until long after they have either been shut down or morphed into something new.
everything kills, people just need to recognize the simple fact that that government which can provide you with roads, water, health care, and more, has the same power to deprive you and others of the same. the trouble is finding politicians who appeal to your sense of helping others and not in electing them to do unto others.
Re: Great North Air Ambulance trials paramedic jet suit
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_freedom If not it isn't really flying. I don't know if it moves around with forces in 6DOF or not either.
Up to a max altitude of 7 meters (at best), sure, an Ekranoplan has got all the degrees of freedom that other aircraft have, Which as was pointed out here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24629545 , is not 6 Imho no, an Ekranoplan does not fly freely. Nothing to do with a bogus DOF count though
> Nothing to do with a bogus DOF count though
It seems that you don't understand the implication of the DOF count. Flying means moving freely through the air. That, colloquially, means 6degree of freedom movement through space. It means looping a, it means barrel rolls, it means it can run circles and go backwards and move upside down. You know, flying.
Ekranoplans fly as much as an hovercraft does, which mean they don't. Case in point: they are unable to do 6dof movement. An ekranoplan doesn't do barrel rolls for example.
Re: Great North Air Ambulance trials paramedic jet suit
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
It sort of depends a bit on cost and a bit on how one operates it doesn't it? Operations costs on a rescue helicopter can be $1500 - $5000/hr based on publicly available data. What is more, large helicopters can do harm with their down wash. So if you can have a suit, or two, or three sitting in the closet on standby then the cost to respond quickly to one of these events can be much lower than the cost of calling in…
Well I think the question becomes, what sort of situations are actually happening, and then what capability is needed to mitigate those situations? If an area's data says that there are enough people whose position we know, but because they didn't get rapid, low level stabalizing triage care they ended up dying then a system like this might make sense. But if most of the cases involve searching, higher level care, an…
I don't disagree, and the same conversation happened when helicopters were first considered for SAR operations. My reading of your comment was that you dismissed as unlikely any application of the jet suits in a SAR role and I don't agree that there is no place or situation where these things make more sense than a helicopter. I was hoping to describe the parameters around where they would make sense.
Re: Great North Air Ambulance trials paramedic jet suit
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_freedom If not it isn't really flying. I don't know if it moves around with forces in 6DOF or not either.
Up to a max altitude of 7 meters (at best), sure, an Ekranoplan has got all the degrees of freedom that other aircraft have, Which as was pointed out here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24629545 , is not 6 Imho no, an Ekranoplan does not fly freely. Nothing to do with a bogus DOF count though
The only reason an Ekranoplan can't fly higher is it's wings don't generate enough lift out of ground effect. Load a 747 up high enough, and it too wouldn't be able to get out of ground effect, but I'd still say it was flying.
Re: Great North Air Ambulance trials paramedic jet suit
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Up to a max altitude of 7 meters (at best), sure, an Ekranoplan has got all the degrees of freedom that other aircraft have, Which as was pointed out here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24629545 , is not 6 Imho no, an Ekranoplan does not fly freely. Nothing to do with a bogus DOF count though
> Nothing to do with a bogus DOF count though It seems that you don't understand the implication of the DOF count. Flying means moving freely through the air. That, colloquially, means 6degree of freedom movement through space. It means looping a, it means barrel rolls, it means it can run circles and go backwards and move upside down. You know, flying. Ekranoplans fly as much as an hovercraft does, which mean they d…
I guess I'm confused. If an aircraft can't go backwards or do a loop, does that mean it's not flying? Because as far as I know, every fixed wing aircraft is incapable of going in reverse, and most can't do a loop. Not trying to pick on your defenition of flight based on degrees of freedom, but that doesn't seem to match any definition of flight I've run across.
Re: Great North Air Ambulance trials paramedic jet suit
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If a person is, like, lifting off from the ground, and moving through the air in a controlled fashion driven by jet engines, isn't that pretty exactly flying? It depends, are they reaching a height where the Wing-in-ground effect is negligible? If they have to stay below that, then no, not really flying. Unless you'd say that a hovercraft or ekranoplan also flies. Or they could just be staying low because it might…
Terminology nit: the effect is the ground effect; the vehicle might be a wing-in-ground-effect craft.
The wing-in-ground effect adds a great deal of drag, and is avoided in typical applications.