Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Steve Jobs and the usable computer (2011)

w3.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 24 posts

Re: Steve Jobs and the usable computer (2011)

#11

Post by agumonkey »

matthoiland wrote: post #2

>Programming the WorldWideWeb client was remarkably easy on the NeXT. There was already a software module, the Text Object, which was an editable multifont editor. I just had to subclass it to make a hypertext object, and add the internet code. Designing the app’s menus was trivial — just drag and drop with InterfaceBuilder. The code framework of the app was generated automatically. That is a platform: something whic…

There used to be a mocking demo of Sun vs Next, can't find it but here's another marketing material I believe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc40mLKRx7g

you see how lean Next makes everything.

Re: Steve Jobs and the usable computer (2011)

#12

Post by the-dude »

zabzonk wrote: post #10
the-dude wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice try blaming someone else.

Well, I did blame myself somewhat (anything in my comment suggest otherwise?), but do you always inspect the voltage selector when you plug something in to the mains?

Yes your comments suggests otherwise : The Americans had left.

And no, I do not always inspect the voltage selector, but I might when it comes from 120V territory.

Re: Steve Jobs and the usable computer (2011)

#13

Post by zabzonk »

the-dude wrote: post #12
zabzonk wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I did blame myself somewhat (anything in my comment suggest otherwise?), but do you always inspect the voltage selector when you plug something in to the mains?

Yes your comments suggests otherwise : The Americans had left . And no, I do not always inspect the voltage selector, but I might when it comes from 120V territory.

I don't want to get into an argument about this, but:

> I once blew up a Next.

Me taking blame.

> The Americans had left the voltage selector on the power supply set to 120V

Me describing the problem.

So, enough.

Re: Steve Jobs and the usable computer (2011)

#14

Post by armadsen »

The source code for WorldWideWeb is available: https://github.com/cynthia/WorldWideWeb. I've got it in the back of my mind to try to get it building at some point (either in Previous, or on real hardware; I have a few working NeXT machines).

As an ObjC programmer who started 15 years after it was written, it's interesting to see how different it is from even NeXTStep 4.2 (aka OpenStep) era code. Most methods don't have explicit return types (still valid, but ~never used), lots more C, no Foundation (didn't exist yet), AppKit was still using NX, etc.

That said, you can tell it's fundamentally the same toolset. There are still classes that more or less exist and work the same way today on modern Mac OS versions, it uses a NIB file, etc.

Re: Steve Jobs and the usable computer (2011)

#16

Post by scroot »

linguae wrote: post #3

I was born in the late 1980s and thus was too young to experience NeXT in its heyday, but sometime in high school was when I learned Mac OS X and its NeXT heritage. I was enamored by a highly usable Unix GUI, and since then I've been a fan of Mac OS X and NeXTSTEP. I even own a non-working NeXTstation Turbo Color that I bought on eBay with the intention of restoring it. However, I was so intrigued with NeXTSTEP as Un…

Here is a question I can't quite answer: why is the complexity of something like Xcode so much greater than NeXT, when many of the basic UI components are pretty much the same kinds of things they were 20 years ago (but, subjectively, better looking)? Is all this extra complexity warranted?

Re: Steve Jobs and the usable computer (2011)

#17

Post by lioeters »

armadsen wrote: post #14

The source code for WorldWideWeb is available: https://github.com/cynthia/WorldWideWeb . I've got it in the back of my mind to try to get it building at some point (either in Previous, or on real hardware; I have a few working NeXT machines). As an ObjC programmer who started 15 years after it was written, it's interesting to see how different it is from even NeXTStep 4.2 (aka OpenStep) era code. Most methods don't h…

I wondered if Qemu can emulate NeXT, and the closest I found were:

https://github.com/blanham/qemu-NeXT

http://gunkies.org/wiki/Installing_NeXTSTEP_on_Qemu

https://virtuallyfun.com/wordpress/2016/02/07/nextstep-in-yo...

Then I realized the "Previous" you mentioned is a full emulator for NeXTStep 0.x to 4.0 beta.

http://previous.alternative-system.com/

https://github.com/probonopd/previous - Mirrored from SourceForge

Fascinating..

Re: Steve Jobs and the usable computer (2011)

#18

Post by tyingq »

the-dude wrote: post #9
zabzonk wrote: post #8

I once blew up a Next. We had sent one (our only one) back to the States from the UK to fix a fault (can't remember what the original fault was). When we got it back I was stoked to plug it in and start using it. When I did - BANG! The Americans had left the voltage selector on the power supply set to 120V, rather than the UK 240V. Edit: Thinking back, I think it was actually the monitor (which was a Next one) that b…

Nice try blaming someone else.

That's an odd response. An EU based customer returned some equipment. The manufacturer should return EU appropriate hardware and settings.

Re: Steve Jobs and the usable computer (2011)

#19

Post by tyingq »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #15
dpedu wrote: post #4

It's a shame what happened to macOs since then. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22434529 https://birchtree.me/blog/undiscoverable-ui-madness/

In many ways it's even more of a shame what happened to the web.

I imagined there would be a split where pages used relatively simple html+css, and apps would use something like Flash or Java Applets. I was surprised at how it turned out.

Re: Steve Jobs and the usable computer (2011)

#20

Post by lorenb »

scroot wrote: post #16
linguae wrote: post #3

I was born in the late 1980s and thus was too young to experience NeXT in its heyday, but sometime in high school was when I learned Mac OS X and its NeXT heritage. I was enamored by a highly usable Unix GUI, and since then I've been a fan of Mac OS X and NeXTSTEP. I even own a non-working NeXTstation Turbo Color that I bought on eBay with the intention of restoring it. However, I was so intrigued with NeXTSTEP as Un…

Here is a question I can't quite answer: why is the complexity of something like Xcode so much greater than NeXT, when many of the basic UI components are pretty much the same kinds of things they were 20 years ago (but, subjectively, better looking)? Is all this extra complexity warranted?

Nope
Post reply on HN