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Trump’s Taxes Show Chronic Losses and Years of Income Tax Avoidance

nytimes.com

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Re: Trump’s Taxes Show Chronic Losses and Years of Income Tax Avoidance

#251

Post by digitaltrees »

twmahna wrote: post #178
digitaltrees wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can anyone seriously support him being in a position of power if this is true. The opportunity to buy that debt and call it as leverage to extract political gain is so easy and obvious. Does any of this debt trade on any market? If so a hedge fund could basically have puppet strings on the federal government.

> The opportunity to buy that debt and call it as leverage to extract political gain is so easy and obvious If this happened, you don't think he'd be able to get another institution (or GOP constituent) to re-finance/backstop his debt for him? 2-300m in debt is a lot but his businesses pull in 4-500m in annual revenue. It's not a crazy debt-to-income ratio.

First of all, as president he shouldn't have any private business interests. Second, under all standard policies, he wouldn't get the most basic security clearance with this fact pattern. Third, saying some other institution or GOP constituent could backstop is PART OF THE PROBLEM, then he is beholden to them, how is that a solution. Fourth, he deliberately withheld this information as part of a years long cover up, contrary to all prior norms, and we now know why, that alone should disqualify him from office. How much tribal blindness are we willing to accept in politics at this point?

Re: Trump’s Taxes Show Chronic Losses and Years of Income Tax Avoidance

#252

Post by twmahna »

digitaltrees wrote: post #251
twmahna wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The opportunity to buy that debt and call it as leverage to extract political gain is so easy and obvious If this happened, you don't think he'd be able to get another institution (or GOP constituent) to re-finance/backstop his debt for him? 2-300m in debt is a lot but his businesses pull in 4-500m in annual revenue. It's not a crazy debt-to-income ratio.

First of all, as president he shouldn't have any private business interests. Second, under all standard policies, he wouldn't get the most basic security clearance with this fact pattern. Third, saying some other institution or GOP constituent could backstop is PART OF THE PROBLEM, then he is beholden to them, how is that a solution. Fourth, he deliberately withheld this information as part of a years long cover up,…

You bring up many good points, none of which I strongly disagree with.

My only point was that it's not "easy and obvious" to "buy his debt and use it as leverage to extract political gain". There are many "outs" he can take if such an event occurred.

Re: Trump’s Taxes Show Chronic Losses and Years of Income Tax Avoidance

#253

Post by me_me_me »

digitaltrees wrote: post #250
me_me_me wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Are they bad people? Cutting ties due to flavor of political leanings sounds very short sighted. My parents are religious I am not, catholic church was actively protecting pedophiles. Should I cut ties to my family??

Are they actively supporting the church in gaining power to continue the abuse? Then, yes, cut ties. It's the active support of someone damaging the world that was my point. Trump has A HALF BILLION in PERSONAL liability... that is fundamentally disqualifying from holding office because it presents a profound national security risk. At this point anyone that supports him is risking the existence of our country. Just…

> Trump has A HALF BILLION in PERSONAL liability... that is fundamentally disqualifying from holding office because it presents a profound national security risk.

Yes, so what?

I am not going to stop talking to my mom because of that. It's not like 'she' votes trump cuz hates my country or goes to church cuz she hates children.

People are idiosyncratic and act like it. We live in the world of shades of gray. Good luck living with black and white standards.

Have you ever eaten KitKat? Well you support child slavery. Have you driven volkswagen well you drive a car from ex-nazi company, Apple phone, nike shoes... I can go on and on.

I really hope you are just hotheaded teen angry with how unjust the world is, then you are justified to feel like it :)

Re: Trump’s Taxes Show Chronic Losses and Years of Income Tax Avoidance

#254

Post by maxlybbert »

dathanb82 wrote: post #236
maxlybbert wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judge Learned Hand (not the Supreme Court, but often quoted; I'm sure partly for the name): "Any one may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes" (Gregory v. Helvering, 1934) "Over and over again courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging o…

I’d be interested in better understanding why Trump didn’t owe more under AM, since most regular deductions don’t apply in that case.

Exactly. I think there’s something being left out of the story.

Re: Trump’s Taxes Show Chronic Losses and Years of Income Tax Avoidance

#255

Post by jki275 »

tsomctl wrote: post #13
xellisx wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that it should be law that the finances of the people at these levels of governence (maybe even down to the city level) be open to the public to review.

Well, it is the law that you're not eligible for a security clearance if you have significant debt.

Not accurate.

Security clearances can be denied for financial irresponsibility, having “significant debt” isn’t necessarily financial irresponsibility.

Re: Trump’s Taxes Show Chronic Losses and Years of Income Tax Avoidance

#256

Post by notmyname9173 »

koheripbal wrote: post #218
bmitc wrote: post #111

If Trump applied for even the most basic national security related job that required the lowest level of security clearance, he absolutely would be denied. And yet, this man is president of the United States.

Because the government doesn't get to decide who can be President. It's up to the people.

The government, as specified in the US Constitution, requires that candidates for president must be born in the US and over 35 years old. Assuming those requirements (and any others that may be added via amendments over time) are met, THEN it's up to the people.

Re: Trump’s Taxes Show Chronic Losses and Years of Income Tax Avoidance

#257

Post by digitaltrees »

me_me_me wrote: post #253
digitaltrees wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they actively supporting the church in gaining power to continue the abuse? Then, yes, cut ties. It's the active support of someone damaging the world that was my point. Trump has A HALF BILLION in PERSONAL liability... that is fundamentally disqualifying from holding office because it presents a profound national security risk. At this point anyone that supports him is risking the existence of our country. Just…

> Trump has A HALF BILLION in PERSONAL liability... that is fundamentally disqualifying from holding office because it presents a profound national security risk. Yes, so what? I am not going to stop talking to my mom because of that. It's not like 'she' votes trump cuz hates my country or goes to church cuz she hates children. People are idiosyncratic and act like it. We live in the world of shades of gray. Good luc…

The direct harm Trump can do is clear and present in a way that eating a Kit Kat could never be. The office of president has access to ALL US intelligence and vast international intelligence. He could literally sell that after he leaves office. The harm a conflicted president could do is as greater than anyone on earth so all your examples pale in comparison.

I am not a hot headed teen. That’s an ad hominem attack meant to paint my position as childish and silly. You probably would have said the same thing before the American revolution, or the rise of Hitler.

At some point we need to draw a line between right and wrong. This is a very black and white situation. The government draws a very clear line when someone has debt that could be used to extort or manipulate them. Security clearance Ian it granted when that risk exists so you can attempt to muddy the waters and wave your hand that “morality is full of gray area” but this is not one of them.

Anyone that enables Trump after he says he won’t leave office or may run for a third term. Or support him after these financial disclosures would enable him to hold power under any circumstances and for any length of time.

Re: Trump’s Taxes Show Chronic Losses and Years of Income Tax Avoidance

#258

Post by digitaltrees »

twmahna wrote: post #252
digitaltrees wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, as president he shouldn't have any private business interests. Second, under all standard policies, he wouldn't get the most basic security clearance with this fact pattern. Third, saying some other institution or GOP constituent could backstop is PART OF THE PROBLEM, then he is beholden to them, how is that a solution. Fourth, he deliberately withheld this information as part of a years long cover up,…

You bring up many good points, none of which I strongly disagree with. My only point was that it's not "easy and obvious" to "buy his debt and use it as leverage to extract political gain". There are many "outs" he can take if such an event occurred.

I started my career as a lawyer in 2008. I specialized on corporate bankruptcies and worked on many of the high profile cases we all read about. I can tell you I saw this first hand. I saw a hedge fund by a loan from a small community bank for $150k and use it to gum up the works and extract $50M. I guarantee Trump is at high risk of danger here. The legal system can absolutely be weaponized and with over $1B of debt there’s no way to know who owns every dollar. The thing is what if money isn’t what they demand? You’re assuming that they will accept payment of their debt. But with leverage comes opportunities for other demands. It’s actually terrifying to think of all of the things one could demand from a president or government under these circumstances. Absolutely insane.

Re: Trump’s Taxes Show Chronic Losses and Years of Income Tax Avoidance

#260

Post by digitaltrees »

smitty1e wrote: post #185
yread wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand he called for a foreign country to hack into his opponents' email and release all of it. So, he obviously doesn't value privacy that much

Tasteless joke, or substantive call for a privacy invasion? One must to keep in mind that cognitive bias has us parsing those we dislike quite literally, while giving those we fancy a pass. And that's true in all 57 states.

It wasn’t a joke because then it happened and he moved to capitalize on it. You should know that at this point so why are you pushing an inaccurate revision to history?
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