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“I monitor my staff with software that takes screenshots”

bbc.co.uk

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Re: “I monitor my staff with software that takes screenshots”

#81

Post by t0mas88 »

mrweasel wrote: post #61
zem wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you took a different lesson away from that than I did - I was fully expecting you to say "and little wonder, seeing as how the company had set up an adversarial relationship with the British employees from the get go" rather than "I suppose they had a reason not to trust people"

I actually had a similar conclusion originally, but then I also saw the level of fraud by our UK customers. They where maybe 5 - 10% of our total sales, but 90+% of fraud cases. My take away is simply that there's less trust in the British society as a whole and it's not necessarily a fault or problem isolated to a single company.

It may be a bit of both, but indeed from anecdotal evidence starting a company in the UK and in the Netherlands: A lot of things are set up with less thrust in the UK. As a simple example in the Netherlands if you reclaim VAT as a company tax services just gives you the money and checks later (obviously you need to give it back if it wasn't correct). In the UK you'll need to show invoices, proof etc before HMRC pays you.

Similar for insurance, car insurance in many European countries is done in 1 minute online just an update to a database. In the UK you need a sticker on your car, people that check the stickers etc.

Re: “I monitor my staff with software that takes screenshots”

#82

Post by m-i-l »

_trampeltier wrote: post #54
zenincognito wrote: post #5

I once went to court against a client who wouldn't pay his bills. The sum more than 35K. It took over 9 months to get to court ( as the court wouldnt give a date ) and countless docs and hours spent to come up with evidence folder. In Australia, a citizen can argue their case which I did without using any lawyers. Finally, we both argued our case to a point where the client's defence was that there was no time log fo…

A couple of years ago, was here an AskHN question. As far I remember, the guy worked from home, had just fill some excel sheets from other excel sheets. After a while he made some scripts and one week work was done in 20 minutes. He added even some errors, because there was another guy who checked all his work. The question was then, if he should tell, he work just 20 minutes and not one week. But he also said he nee…

A bit further back, there was the IT worker who secretly outsourced his own work: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21043693

Re: “I monitor my staff with software that takes screenshots”

#83

Post by hellotomyrars »

aaron695 wrote: post #75
zenincognito wrote: post #5

I once went to court against a client who wouldn't pay his bills. The sum more than 35K. It took over 9 months to get to court ( as the court wouldnt give a date ) and countless docs and hours spent to come up with evidence folder. In Australia, a citizen can argue their case which I did without using any lawyers. Finally, we both argued our case to a point where the client's defence was that there was no time log fo…

> Pay for work not time spent on the computer And next week HN will love UBI. Many people are shit at their jobs and always will be. The current system with its messiness gets them money and self respect. I'm not against a hard world that hurts more people for the next century while we work towards utopia. But just be aware what you are advocating for. Cut throat gig contracts are different to the Fuck you, Pay me, i…

So how are you defining Utopia?

What makes us reach the singularity that creates Utopia at the expense of people being miserable?

Not a lot of money and self-respect in working min wage/dead end jobs. Plenty of people out on the streets who can’t even get a job.

Not sure what you think Utopia is, but I fail to see how another century of a hard world that hurts people gets us there.

Re: “I monitor my staff with software that takes screenshots”

#84

Post by jacquesm »

aemreunal wrote: post #66
nip wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One day you come home and realize that you locked yourself out of your home. You call the locksmith. He arrives, looks at the door, fiddles with the lock for one minute, opens the door then leaves. The next day you receive the bill, 150€. Are you mad for spending so much for one minute of work? You shouldn’t: you paid for the experience that allowed him to open it in 1 minute. — Recalling it from a discussion with a…

Reminds of an exchange, potentially misattributed ([1]) to Picasso: A woman approaches Picasso in a restaurant, asks him to scribble something on a napkin and says she would be happy to pay whatever he felt it was worth. Picasso complied and then said, "That will be $10,000." "But you did that in thirty seconds," the astonished woman replied. "No," Picasso said. "It has taken me forty years to do that." [1]: https://…

A woman approaches Yves Saint Laurent, "Oh Yves, I must have a unique hat for tonights' gala".

The master seats her, grabs a bunch of ribbons and proceeds to drape her hair in what turns out to be an extremely nice and harmonic creation, and all that in the space of 30 minutes.

The woman is ecstatic: "Oh Yves, I knew you would come through, how much do I owe you?"

"That will be 10,000 Francs"

"10,000 Francs? For 30 minutes?"

Without a word the couturier unwinds the ribbons, spools them up nicely and hands the spools to the lady. "The ribbon you get for free.".

Re: “I monitor my staff with software that takes screenshots”

#86

Post by auggierose »

jb1991 wrote: post #32

All of this is a symptom of paying people for their time rather than paying them for their actual work or achievements. We need to get away from the idea of someone renting out part of their life at an hourly rate. Just assign jobs and pay when they are done. I realize this maybe sounds simpler than it often is, but after some growing pains, it is possible to calibrate the specific work with a value that is fair. Som…

How do you align that with minimum wage if some people just take too much time for their assigned task? How do you make sure this isn't becoming a race to the bottom, where people are getting more and more efficient, but are being paid less and less?

Re: “I monitor my staff with software that takes screenshots”

#87

Post by hellotomyrars »

AdhesiveWombat wrote: post #44
SpeckOfDust wrote: post #18

I wonder if its actually even worth it to do this kind of shit. Forget the ethical concerns for a minute, think about the kind of company you've built and the people you've hired to even warrant this kind of scrutiny in the first place.

Not every work is interesting enough to keep your employees motivated. For example, in the article they mention a company that resells beauty products. IMHO I can understand people not being incredibly motivated by this.

While I understand your point, there is a level of oppressive surveillance here that is unwarranted and unneeded.

It shouldn’t be difficult to track the performance of the employee with metrics that are actually specific to the task they are hired to do (Number of listings/sales).

Taking screenshots, tracking keystrokes and mouse movement? It’s extreme, and doesn’t even relate to the work they’re doing in a direct way. You might be able to see them slacking off, but it doesn’t tell you the quality of the work.

Re: “I monitor my staff with software that takes screenshots”

#88

Post by MrDresden »

Thlom wrote: post #77
mrweasel wrote: post #21

I worked for a company with a UK department, the UK boss would routinely use similar software to check that people where actually working and doing things correctly. The Scandinavian bosses opted to just trust everyone to do the right thing and people always would. Interestingly enough if was always the British employees who would do things like steal customer contact lists when they left or do deals on the side, so…

The Scandinavian bosses didn't just opt to trust the employees. Spying on employees is illegal in (most of?) Scandinavia as far as I know. (By the way, I have the same experience re: British/Scandinavian labor culture)

Yes, this kind of invasive surveillance would not be allowed and could end up in the company being fined huged sums

Re: “I monitor my staff with software that takes screenshots”

#89

Post by 0x008 »

zenincognito wrote: post #5

I once went to court against a client who wouldn't pay his bills. The sum more than 35K. It took over 9 months to get to court ( as the court wouldnt give a date ) and countless docs and hours spent to come up with evidence folder. In Australia, a citizen can argue their case which I did without using any lawyers. Finally, we both argued our case to a point where the client's defence was that there was no time log fo…

IANAL, but it might be worth pointing out that this depends entirely on the contract. In my contry there are two basic types of work contracts: One that is about the work where the quality of the result is the deciding factor and the time spent is irrelevant (within given constraints, e.g. milestones or due dates). The other one is explicitly about the hours spent working, regardless of the actual outcome (also within given contraints).

Re: “I monitor my staff with software that takes screenshots”

#90

Post by bryanrasmussen »

jacquesm wrote: post #84
aemreunal wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds of an exchange, potentially misattributed ([1]) to Picasso: A woman approaches Picasso in a restaurant, asks him to scribble something on a napkin and says she would be happy to pay whatever he felt it was worth. Picasso complied and then said, "That will be $10,000." "But you did that in thirty seconds," the astonished woman replied. "No," Picasso said. "It has taken me forty years to do that." [1]: https://…

A woman approaches Yves Saint Laurent, "Oh Yves, I must have a unique hat for tonights' gala". The master seats her, grabs a bunch of ribbons and proceeds to drape her hair in what turns out to be an extremely nice and harmonic creation, and all that in the space of 30 minutes. The woman is ecstatic: "Oh Yves, I knew you would come through, how much do I owe you?" "That will be 10,000 Francs" "10,000 Francs? For 30 m…

I wonder how much the person who makes up all these amusing anecdotes about famous people having to quibble about their payment rate gets paid. Probably not enough.
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