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Netflix CEO explains why he pays technologists huge salaries

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Re: Netflix CEO explains why he pays technologists huge salaries

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would think these companies that are built on measuring data would have some idea if the whiteboard interview works. Otherwise, why would they do it?

Q. Why does 90% of human society work the way it does? A. Because that's the way we've always done it. I can't speak for SV companies, but my experience of data is that it can just as easily rationalize preconceptions as be used to inform decision-making. Somebody has to interpret that data, after all.

If our way of hiring doesn't work then how come we're so rich!?

Re: Netflix CEO explains why he pays technologists huge salaries

#332
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the problem is in the Typical Man Month. 10x as many 1x developers will deliver a worse product on a longer schedule than 1x as many 10x developers. Even if you assume 150% developers at 300% the cost, it's worth it. The number of communications channels grows quadratically with the number of people in the org. You'll come out ahead at larger organization sizes. Fewer, higher-productivity people is a huge win i…

I completely agree with your premise on the 10x developer in concept (although what 10x means is up for debate). I agree with the fact that a team of "good" developers will outperform a team of The issue is, whiteboarding people on trivia programming problems doesn't determine if they are a 10x/good developer - it only determines if they understand the particular trivia they are asked.

The problem is having people conduct whiteboard interviews without actually understanding what the whiteboard interview is looking for. 10x engineers tend to be force multipliers not because of their technical skills, it's due to their excellent soft skills (communication/leadership). Because organizational communication problems increase cost exponentially, so decreasing communication overhead is far better returns than a slightly better technical implementation.

So you have all these people running these interviews focusing on the problem being asked when in reality, the solution to the problem is mostly irrelevant.

Re: Netflix CEO explains why he pays technologists huge salaries

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Doing the work" meaning having to study to relearn a thing that I'll maybe use sparingly in my work means the interview process is broken, not anyone's motivation I used to think this too, but as a filter I think it's having the desired effect. From the outside looking in Life at a FAANG seems competitive in nature and they are optimizing for the people willing to push themselves that far to learn something. The ad…

My favorite version of this is the driving test you take in California before you get your license. One of the rules is that you automatically fail the test if you bump a curb with your wheels. That means, when pulling into a spot, you can't inch forward until your front wheels come to rest on the curb. Fail! At first glance it seems like a trivial thing to fail someone for. I know in normal driving, I use curbs like…

A lot of that stuff depends on the proctor. When I took the driving test the first time in my state (not CA), he almost failed me because I failed every single left turn. Thankfully at the end he asked a question, and realized that I had done every turn incorrectly because nobody ever bothered to tell me that left turns always should go to the LEFT lane, not right.

Re: Netflix CEO explains why he pays technologists huge salaries

#334
post #245

I think the article improperly conflates Rick and a 10x developer. I have an essay I wrote a while ago lying around that talks about the Intermediate Programmer - Rick sounds like a perfect example. The IP is the one that has the gumption to try out various inventions and experiments, usually focusing on the trying to solve a problem with a perfect Beautiful Machine, but that doesn't yet have the perspective to know…

Maybe Rick just does what ever is the most fun. I don't give a rats ass about the business as long as they can pay my salary.

Assuming you're working with smart people, they might recognize this about you over time and it could negatively impact your advancement opportunities and your employability. They're paying you to serve their interests - maybe you could figure out how to make it fun to do that efficiently.

Re: Netflix CEO explains why he pays technologists huge salaries

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean doing the work _again_. I had all the algorithm stuff down cold out of college and maybe for another 5 years after. Now after 20 years of rarely needing any of it and having it be a web search away when I did, I couldn't come up with any of it on demand. "Doing the work" meaning having to study to relearn a thing that I'll maybe use sparingly in my work means the interview process is broken, not anyone's mot…

The rampup at FAANG can be brutal and you'd be doing lots of learning even after getting in. The leetcode style interviews are designed to select people capable of studying and materialising broad problems in depth and scope under time constraints. They are also objective and can't really be faked nor you can talk your way in like in most banking/finance IT jobs. I was of similar opinion at some point but these reali…

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Re: Netflix CEO explains why he pays technologists huge salaries

#336
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of things are broken. The question is do you want to work hard enough to overcome it? My guess is you’ve got a good enough job already, so it’s not worth the effort.

I think that, as you get older (or maybe further into your career? More tenured? I don't know that it's inherent with age as much as experience), you become less interested in doing ridiculous things just to prove that you can. That's not to say that other people shouldn't, just that, the value-add seems less and less worth it as time goes on. It is possible (and in fact common) to lead a full and successful career a…

I had the “misfortune” of getting fired for going to bat for a junior co-worker who was being taken advantage of by the company. If I hadn’t taken 2 months to do nothing but grind on leetcode problems, there’s no way I was ever going to do it in my precious free time (2 kids, lots of hobbies).

I’d never make a bet like that on myself by choice, but in hindsight it would have been an excellent investment years ago. My quality of life is immensely better working for a big tech co than it was at any startup.

Re: Netflix CEO explains why he pays technologists huge salaries

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> becomes extremely hard > went through a lot of grinding to make that happen Aren't we in agreement?

Not really, you implied it was harder later in your career because of assumptions made about previous history. The comment that replied to you said you can study and pass without your age being held against you.

The comment reply said it was difficult and they grinded hard. First comment did not say it was impossible.

Re: Netflix CEO explains why he pays technologists huge salaries

#338
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, if you're not focused, and you're not even writing documentation, there is no way you should be considered very good at your job. Early in my career I had someone that kept telling me "we don't write documentation because nobody will read it". I'll never put up with that again. You can take 30mins to write a confluence page describing the context, the solution, and comparison to other solutions and why this one…

Different companies have different needs, early stage startups would probably fire you for spending too much time on documentation because they're paying you to make progress on their product and you're usually working alone anyways or very small teams with heavy interaction. So not only would nobody ready it, it would become outdated within a month.

People think that documentation needs to be kept up to date. It doesn't.

You don't have to always write docs saying "here's how this system works".

You just write a document as a proposal saying "here is how I want to build this system".

It takes 30mins. It helps everyone. If you want to change the system significantly, you just write another design doc.

Also, if you do this you probably don't have to redo things all the time.

If a company fires you for outlining how you're going to solve a big problem - they aren't going to do well anyway so you don't miss out on much.

Based on my experience from a fast growing billion dollar company, and a company that you would call "fast moving" but will never be anywhere near as successful because they can't focus, let alone sit down for 30mins and write a document.

Re: Netflix CEO explains why he pays technologists huge salaries

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Doing the work" meaning having to study to relearn a thing that I'll maybe use sparingly in my work means the interview process is broken, not anyone's motivation I used to think this too, but as a filter I think it's having the desired effect. From the outside looking in Life at a FAANG seems competitive in nature and they are optimizing for the people willing to push themselves that far to learn something. The ad…

My favorite version of this is the driving test you take in California before you get your license. One of the rules is that you automatically fail the test if you bump a curb with your wheels. That means, when pulling into a spot, you can't inch forward until your front wheels come to rest on the curb. Fail! At first glance it seems like a trivial thing to fail someone for. I know in normal driving, I use curbs like…

One of the tests is for backing the vehicle up. In that test, you may not touch the curb. It's not otherwise obvious from the document provided that any other contact with the curb is disallowed. So either it's untrue that it's disallowed when pulling forward, or it's untrue that you know about it upfront.

Regardless, not touching the curb, even if arbitrary, can be an indicator of competence. It demonstrates control and awareness of the vehicle.

Memorizing an algorithm is a potential indicator of many things, not all positive, but I don't think it says anything at all about competence.

> ...you can't inch forward until your front wheels come to rest on the curb. ...if you still contact the curb, then you've demonstrated that you don't know where the boundaries of your vehicle are.

This demonstrates one reason why whiteboard interviews aren't great. They don't mean what people think they mean, and people think of them in very black-and-white terms. X always implies Y, or at best they say, "Well, maybe not, but..." and then justify the exact same result with only superficially different reasoning.

In your example, the driver might have demonstrated he doesn't know where the front or rear of the wheel is exactly. But it could also be he was just nervous or driving a vehicle he isn't used to using. Maybe he had to borrow his older brother's car when mom's broke down at the last minute. Saying he doesn't know where the boundaries of his vehicle are goes against all the other evidence: he didn't strike anything with the boundaries of his car. The curb is already inside those boundaries, intentionally and by design of the test.

Re: Netflix CEO explains why he pays technologists huge salaries

#340
post #77

I think 100x is hyperbol however you slice it, run away from anyone who tells you they are a 100x developer. 10x may be achievable... but I argue that it is at least partly due to the prevailing code-base. Every competent developer is a 10x developer on a green field project just like every competent developer is a 0.1x developer on a messy legacy spaghetti-code disaster of a project (Making the differential 100x I g…

Reed is taking that into account. Reed and Netflix have been creating software for many years. They certainly have had "Rockstars" who could bust out functional but unmaintainable code. Those people are not valuable to Netflix because Netflix is looking for long term success. A 100x engineer exists in the context of a global company like Netflix. Because if a developer makes something just 1% better that translates i…

The guys doing money printing machine control software must be 100'000x engineers.

The starts at Netflix are the procurement people that ensnare good movies while drinking fine wine on Manhattan or whatever. I would not say it is an engineering company like say, IBM or Oracle.

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