Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

China's social credit system is both unique and part of a global trend

tutanota.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 195 posts

Re: China's social credit system is both unique and part of a global trend

#11

Post by vmception »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #9
vmception wrote: post #4

Like the article mentions, private sector credit systems have the same or similar result in dictating outcomes, but as long as its not from the state, nobody in the west will care about it. Which is very weird because it is exactly how people end up living in worse neighborhoods even if they have enough money to pay rent elsewhere, leading to worse and worse outcomes and no way to change that. A state sanctioned one…

>private sector credit systems have the same or similar result in dictating outcomes I don't know how anyone can say this with a straight face. In the west you can be bankrupt and still buy a first class airline ticket or go to a concert or do damn near anything else so long as you aren't using credit to do it.

> says same or similar result

> rebuts with a different result

I elaborated enough on what circumstances dictate outcomes. You might have missed the point, which was that we can do things differently and can use this as an opportunity for introspection to make it happen differently.

And again, I am echoing sentiments from the article, so if you think I'm way off base then the whole article is invalid too and you should comment at the top level instead of whatever hairs you want to split with me.

Re: China's social credit system is both unique and part of a global trend

#12

Post by hackstack »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #8
gumby wrote: post #5

I’m pretty sure Equifax et al aggregate this info as well (well perhaps not yet your trash-sorting) such as arrest records and probably social media activity as an option, or future option, to swizzle into credit rating.

Your credit rating doesn't affect your ability to go to a concert or buy an airline ticket.

Not today— it doesn’t seem like a terrible stretch to imagine that it could in a decade or two though.

Re: China's social credit system is both unique and part of a global trend

#14

Post by sega_sai »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #8
gumby wrote: post #5

I’m pretty sure Equifax et al aggregate this info as well (well perhaps not yet your trash-sorting) such as arrest records and probably social media activity as an option, or future option, to swizzle into credit rating.

Your credit rating doesn't affect your ability to go to a concert or buy an airline ticket.

But it affects a possibility of getting a job or renting an apartment. I'm afraid there is a trend of trying to use the credit rating for more and more...

Re: China's social credit system is both unique and part of a global trend

#16

Post by AlexTWithBeard »

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #10

Ultimately, what would such a system be optimized for? The goals will be modulated by the persons or groups in power. From what I've seen, the powerful in China seek a stable, well behaved, productive workforce such that the profit from their labor can accrue to the benefit of the ruling class. A data collection system as pervasive as the social credit system that feeds into a self-optimizing control center that can…

At least on paper it's optimized for all good things. From the article above:

Negative factors: dishonest and fraudulent financial behavior, playing loud music, violating traffic rules, making reservations at restaurants and not showing up, failing to correctly sort your waste, fraudulently using other people's public transportation ID cards

Positive factors, on the other hand, include:

donating blood, donating to charity, volunteering to community services

But the lack of transparency means that what's promised may be different from what's actually done.

Re: China's social credit system is both unique and part of a global trend

#17

Post by Barrin92 »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #9
vmception wrote: post #4

Like the article mentions, private sector credit systems have the same or similar result in dictating outcomes, but as long as its not from the state, nobody in the west will care about it. Which is very weird because it is exactly how people end up living in worse neighborhoods even if they have enough money to pay rent elsewhere, leading to worse and worse outcomes and no way to change that. A state sanctioned one…

>private sector credit systems have the same or similar result in dictating outcomes I don't know how anyone can say this with a straight face. In the west you can be bankrupt and still buy a first class airline ticket or go to a concert or do damn near anything else so long as you aren't using credit to do it.

you meet many bankrupt people on luxury cruises and first class airline tickets?

What's astonishing to me is how we in the West have created this metaphysical alternative reality where poor people are taught to think they have the chance to live in mansions or fly on luxury airlines, if it weren't for the fact that they're poor, of course.

In contrast to the cruel Chinese, we also have majestic legal equality, where the millionaires and the poor are equally punished for sleeping on park benches

Re: China's social credit system is both unique and part of a global trend

#18

Post by mensetmanusman »

gumby wrote: post #5

I’m pretty sure Equifax et al aggregate this info as well (well perhaps not yet your trash-sorting) such as arrest records and probably social media activity as an option, or future option, to swizzle into credit rating.

False, Equifax does not have access to all of facebook chat records.

China has access to WeChat.

Re: China's social credit system is both unique and part of a global trend

#19

Post by inglor_cz »

HashingtheCode wrote: post #2

Nice summary on their website about the privacy restrictions and surveillance of the population due to their dystopian Social Credit System. If people aren't that familiar with SCS, this should bring them up to speed. I understand that this SCS is not yet fully active and in varying parts being tested throughout the country, but, at some point it will be ready and go live nationally. What's really worrying is that th…

in the name of "safety" and "national security".

And, paradoxically enough, in the name of suppression of foreign interference.

Re: China's social credit system is both unique and part of a global trend

#20

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #8
gumby wrote: post #5

I’m pretty sure Equifax et al aggregate this info as well (well perhaps not yet your trash-sorting) such as arrest records and probably social media activity as an option, or future option, to swizzle into credit rating.

Your credit rating doesn't affect your ability to go to a concert or buy an airline ticket.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN