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Investigating TLS Blocking in India

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Re: Investigating TLS Blocking in India

#121

Post by colinmhayes »

shripadk wrote: post #95
djsumdog wrote: post #11

I remember visiting India as a kid with my family, and one of my cousins telling me about an America TV series that was banned. I didn't think much of it at the time, but as I've grown older, I've really come to appreciate the freedom of speech we have in America. I just wrote a post about it: https://battlepenguin.com/politics/why-i-no-longer-hate-amer... India is literally the largest democratic country by populati…

> I remember visiting India as a kid with my family, and one of my cousins telling me about an America TV series that was banned. I didn't think much of it at the time, but as I've grown older, I've really come to appreciate the freedom of speech we have in America. I just wrote a post about it: Ummm what? America bans films and TV series too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_banned_in_the_Un...

SO in the last 20 years 2 movies have been very briefly banned because of relevant court cases and one wasn't allowed to be shown on tv within a month of an election(supreme court overturned that law). I wouldn't really say that equals America bans films and tv series.

Re: Investigating TLS Blocking in India

#123

Post by squarefoot »

djsumdog wrote: post #11

I remember visiting India as a kid with my family, and one of my cousins telling me about an America TV series that was banned. I didn't think much of it at the time, but as I've grown older, I've really come to appreciate the freedom of speech we have in America. I just wrote a post about it: https://battlepenguin.com/politics/why-i-no-longer-hate-amer... India is literally the largest democratic country by populati…

The exercise of freedom often depends on the context. During the latest Iraq invasion, when the death toll started to rise, US TV networks were forbidden from displaying coffins returning from the war zone, because it could have fueled anti-war feelings among the population. It may have been a lot less than jailing someone for merely saying something the government doesn't like, which is what happens in countries we define as non-free, but it's still acting against freedom of press that turns out into lying to the public.

Re: Investigating TLS Blocking in India

#124

Post by LinuxBender »

ignoramous wrote: post #96
justDankin wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TLS1.3 + ESNI is a robust solution, Firefox has the option of enabling it. Cloudflare has a great page which allows to check this https://www.cloudflare.com/en-gb/ssl/encrypted-sni/

A couple of problems: 1. ESNI isn't a standard yet. So, support in mainstream web-clients is lacking. 2. Unfortunately, TLS v1.3 is blocked in countries with stringent censorship already.

I would not be surprised if some countries started blocking all the known DoH resolvers as well.

Re: Investigating TLS Blocking in India

#125

Post by ta8964586 »

jacobush wrote: post #106
nindalf wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve made a common mistake - constitutionally guaranteed freedom of speech means freedom from the government restricting you from or persecuting you for speech. That does not mean citizens need to tolerate whatever you say. For example, a commenter on HN might break the rules and get banned by dang. Dang isn’t violating their constitutional rights, because dang/HN isn’t the government. [1] Similarly, trump the priv…

I find it interesting how many seem so content with that constitutionally guaranteed freedom of speech means freedom from the government restricting you . At what point does that stop being useful, as corporations gain power over the government? Some used to worry that private malls replacing public venues for people congregating caused an erosion of rights. Now the Internet is mostly private malls. Anyone can self h…

It almost sounds like you're described freedom of speech as a right to be heard. That's a distinction of positive/negative freedoms as mentioned previously in this thread. You can host a blog and your speech won't be restricted (negative freedom), but if no one is viewing it, that's because no one cares to hear what you have to say. You don't have the right to be heard (positive freedom) because that would require people being forced to hear you.

If the problem is that you can't build an audience it's not because your freedom of speech is being restricted, it's because no one wants to listen to you.

Re: Investigating TLS Blocking in India

#126

Post by jacobush »

ta8964586 wrote: post #125
jacobush wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it interesting how many seem so content with that constitutionally guaranteed freedom of speech means freedom from the government restricting you . At what point does that stop being useful, as corporations gain power over the government? Some used to worry that private malls replacing public venues for people congregating caused an erosion of rights. Now the Internet is mostly private malls. Anyone can self h…

It almost sounds like you're described freedom of speech as a right to be heard. That's a distinction of positive/negative freedoms as mentioned previously in this thread. You can host a blog and your speech won't be restricted (negative freedom), but if no one is viewing it, that's because no one cares to hear what you have to say. You don't have the right to be heard (positive freedom) because that would require pe…

Or it's because the town square is gone and you have the free speech corner somewhere off into the woods.

Re: Investigating TLS Blocking in India

#127

Post by axaxs »

wutwutwutwut wrote: post #40
axaxs wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it seems anyone who has traveled outside of their home country recognizes this list as the bullshit that it is. Please stop linking it.

Any source for that, looks pretty good to me? Been to 30 or so different countries but not entirely sure why traveling abroad is relevant.

So, I'm not arguing "USA #1". Never would, and to be honest, I haven't been to every country to compare. But their reasoning for ranking it low is 'Trump cracking down' blah blah. Go to CNN's website right now, their top headline is literally calling him a sham. The press here is free to do this, naturally, despite alarmist theories.

Some of the countries ranked higher(in rank = lower number) are not even so safe to be in. How can you consider liberty among a place people can't even freely go where they want to report?

Re: Investigating TLS Blocking in India

#128

Post by splintercell »

nindalf wrote: post #73
shi314 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free speech is not about releasing every movie or TV show produced by entitled people. It's about free speech of common people. A person getting fired for a thing he/she commented a decade ago is not free speech. USA has lot to do with free speech which really matters. USA was top country regarding free speech in maybe 1980s but now, it needs to change it's policies to be one.

You’ve made a common mistake - constitutionally guaranteed freedom of speech means freedom from the government restricting you from or persecuting you for speech. That does not mean citizens need to tolerate whatever you say. For example, a commenter on HN might break the rules and get banned by dang. Dang isn’t violating their constitutional rights, because dang/HN isn’t the government. [1] Similarly, trump the priv…

And one of the primary reasons why private speech is so heavily restricted by other private citizens because government cannot restrict you.

For the kinds of things people in America get fired, in European countries they get arrested for that.

Re: Investigating TLS Blocking in India

#129

Post by splintercell »

justaguyhere wrote: post #116
yorwba wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is actually 0.19 points. You can read their description of press freedom in India https://rsf.org/en/india or of Pakistan https://rsf.org/en/pakistan and neither sounds that great.

I constantly see Norway/Denmark/Sweden/Switzerland at the top of good lists, like this rsf one. Never been there, but a bit jealous (and happy for those living there) that other countries that have insanely more resources at their disposal are unable to copy these tiny countries.

Ar a private citizen do you believe that you're going to be unmolested by the US govt over your speech (and let's say there are a 100 statements test which include all kinds of speech) vs Norwegian govt?

Re: Investigating TLS Blocking in India

#130

Post by AmIDev »

square_usual wrote: post #44

Using firefox 81 on Jio broadband, one of the ISPs mentioned, and I was able to access www.womenonweb.org, one of the websites they mention was blocked. Maybe that's because of firefox's DoH?

Yes. Firefox DoH, or using 1.1.1.1 is generally enough to bypass most blocks in India
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