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Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

reuters.com

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Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#501

Post by mateus1 »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #103
localhost wrote: post #20

Unlike some other commenters below, I don't believe that this is a privacy issue. Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue because TikTok is controllable by the CCP which is ideologically opposed to the United States. The next global conflict will likely be one between the east and the west, with control of information being advantageous to both sides in the conflict. China already blocks the western I…

>The next global conflict will likely be one between the east and the west, with control of information being advantageous to both sides in the conflict Your linked position is that this is basically an ideological war, and that China won't quit until it has destroyed "liberalism." So why are you advocating the destruction of a key aspect of liberalism, the right to the free spread of ideas? This reeks of classic red…

I guess I shouldn't be scared US citizens are so eager to drop fundamental rights for "freedom".

But I am. HN is a forum of quite intelligent people and surprises me to see so many people see US as a bastion of freedom...

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#502

Post by mechnesium »

p1necone wrote: post #200
p1necone wrote: post #196

You know you don't have to argue about who's in the wrong here? It's okay to accept that both the USA and China are in the wrong, not everything has to be a fight with a winner. China for having uncomfortable amounts of government control/vision over the data and operations of Chinese social media companies. And the USA for singling out Tik Tok seemingly arbitrarily, and banning it for "national security" reasons wit…

There's another argument to be had about whether Chinese spying is "worse" than western spying because it's officially legitimized by the policies of the Chinese government. And whether it's also "worse" because China is more authoritarian and oppressive with it's own citizens. I'm making an assumption here that because of these two things it's mostly generally accepted that the Chinese surveillance state is "worse"…

I don’t think Chinese surveillance is worse for people outside of China. Your local government’s surveillance will always be worse, because it has the capability to act upon the data collected on you, since you are in their jurisdiction.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#503

Post by SomeCollegeBro »

advanced-DnD wrote: post #451
publicola1990 wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fed government could simply order all federal employees off tiktok or any other service without legal hurdles. What is the point of banning for the general public.

Let's say a child of a worker working in a nuclear reactor site for "Bring your daughter to work-day". She's ofcourse using tiktok, and guess who has that data now. This is just an example. If I spend enough time, I can think of a whole lot more examples.

That's such an odd and incredibly unrealistic scenario. Also, in your hypothetical example, there's nothing that could be gained from TikTok that they couldn't have already figured out from satellite imagery.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#504

Post by xenihn »

kawsper wrote: post #442
thesz wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it is not. I am not R or D, I am Russian programmer who lives in Russia and likes to read. One of things I've read already long ago is about priming: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5266685/ Showing one different pictures change walking speed, at the very least. And effects can last as long as year: http://www.bm.ust.hk/mark/files/staff/Bob/mkwyer-JCP-2014-24... TikTok, being a massive analytic…

> Facebook is primarily text which is low bandwidth and it goes through higher thinking. Today Facebook is mostly images, livestreams and videos.

Your feed is customized to your interests. Some people get lots of words, others just get images, livestreams, and videos.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#505

Post by mechnesium »

p1necone wrote: post #196

You know you don't have to argue about who's in the wrong here? It's okay to accept that both the USA and China are in the wrong, not everything has to be a fight with a winner. China for having uncomfortable amounts of government control/vision over the data and operations of Chinese social media companies. And the USA for singling out Tik Tok seemingly arbitrarily, and banning it for "national security" reasons wit…

> USA for singling out Tik Tok seemingly arbitrarily, and banning it for "national security" reasons without going into any detail about what they are or what evidence they have for them.

It’s McCarthyism all over again.

This type of behavior, coming from the very top of the US government, is unacceptable. It’s an erosion of your freedoms and needs to be vehemently fought.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#506

Post by starfallg »

avianlyric wrote: post #279
warbaker wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, it's ok for China to ban Google because Google refuses to help with censorship and propaganda, and because Google doesn't want the Chinese govt to be able to spy on its citizens. But it's not OK for the US to keep out spyware. Heck, retaliation for China's banning of Google etc would be sufficient justification for banning TikTok on its own.

Well yes it is ok for China to block Google, they’re allowed to block anyone they want. The issue isn’t a tit-for-tat they block, we block issue, with the US and China acting like playground children. The issue is whether or not the rule-of-law still means anything in the US. Have the executive block things pretty much arbitrarily undermines the rule-of-law. If the US wants to block Chinese companies, then pass laws…

>The issue is whether or not the rule-of-law still means anything in the US. Have the executive block things pretty much arbitrarily undermines the rule-of-law. If the US wants to block Chinese companies, then pass laws in congress to do so. Don’t let your executive do an end run around your democratic process.

The courts are doing exactly that, determining whether the executive has the authority to implement this. This is in fact the rule-of-law in action.

This is also the reason why the rule-of-law is lacking in China, the courts rarely if ever finds against the government in constitutional matters like these. Their system was designed for the CCP to retain power.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#507

Post by danmg »

dfischer wrote: post #291
CraigJPerry wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely Facebook’s a bigger issue than 60 second videos since any bad actor can target messaging at susceptibile users and no one will know. This just seems like yet another case of Republican double speak. Say one thing do a different thing that just coincidentally happens to grab power over others. Also, what is the method of using a 60 second video platform to share messaging with a crowd who will immediately scrol…

TikTok is the generation that is most malleable to propaganda in a way that can undermine an entire generation. TikTok also has history of recording telemetry that’s extremely alarming. Look into what is mined. Look into how algorithms get optimized to influence behavior. See a recent paper on this with using social media to shut down a power plant. Memetic warfare is real and it’s been going on in cyberspace for a w…

The Fox News generation seems the most malleable to propaganda.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#508

Post by bkor »

dfischer wrote: post #348
CraigJPerry wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why not focus on Facebook? Why not do something meaningful, anything, with a company which is actually beholden to us law? Seems like targetting the biggest bang for buck would be a good place to start and THEN move on to others, no?

It’s not mutually exclusive. Facebook is complicit. TikTok however is specifically a unique entity on its own. The demographics that use it are of critical interest to persuade additionally the data is directly at risk of being used as information warfare on increasingly elevated state cyber warfare tactics. Follow the trail of information. Look into what’s going in across the stack hardware to software to networks.…

Facebook has been used for misinformation for a significant longer amount of time. Usually I get annoyed when people say something like "but what about X", but in this case it's a case of one company often being proven to manipulate, distort, etc (Facebook) vs a possibility that another company might do that.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#509

Post by programmarchy »

Talanes wrote: post #447
abc-xyz wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they cannot buy the same data - the quantity and quality of the data they obtain themselves (through apps like TikTok and WeChat that are running in the background 24/7 while collecting any information possible, such as secretly copying your clipboard which is likely to reveal passwords and other sensitive information) is far higher than what they could pay for. You’re also ignoring the fact that they can use the…

> they’ve for instance chosen to omit the fact that the Wuhan Virus originated in China. Any social media platforms using the term "Wuhan Virus" would be a bigger sign of governmental propaganda than the lack is.

Would you say the names West Nile, Zika, and MERS are also signs of propaganda?

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#510

Post by dahfizz »

publicola1990 wrote: post #362
localhost wrote: post #20

Unlike some other commenters below, I don't believe that this is a privacy issue. Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue because TikTok is controllable by the CCP which is ideologically opposed to the United States. The next global conflict will likely be one between the east and the west, with control of information being advantageous to both sides in the conflict. China already blocks the western I…

Also TikTok hasn't violated US laws, then where is the case for banning them? Banning something that is perfectly legal seems absurd to do in our legal system. Also US government hasn't made a specific claim of any imminent security threat posed by TikTok. From a data security point of view the expert opinion seems to be that there isn't a clear cut case for singling out and banning tiktok. The ban is therefore undou…

> Also TikTok hasn't violated US laws, then where is the case for banning them? Banning something that is perfectly legal seems absurd to do in our legal system.

Cuban cigars haven't broken any laws. Iranian ceramics haven't broken any laws.

The power to sanction / embargo is a very well established power of the government, and it doesn't require a trial. China has long been in violation of the Trafficking in Persons report[1] and, more recently, the Uyghur Human Rights Policy Act[2]. Violation of the TIP report especially gives a very strong precedent for trade sanctions.

TikTok has been described as a national security threat multiple times by multiple political leaders. You may disagree with that designation, but the resulting ban itself is strongly supported by law and precedent.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trafficking_in_Persons_Report

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_Human_Rights_Policy_Act

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