That's insanely short, especially for a European country.
French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave
311–320 of 485 posts
Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave
#312Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is clearly cultural. If I hadn't taken my several months of leave when my kids were pre-daycare age, that would have been effectively me being an "absent father" in the eyes of people around me. It simply isn't a very acceptable thing to do. You get paid (80%). You can't get fired. Choosing not to do it means you don't want to do it, or you chose something else over your parental leave. Not only would skipping p…
Although I believe it’s best for the family to have the father take some time (as much as they can!), I think it’s sort of no ones business if he chooses to take time and how much time he takes. If you’re not getting 100% of your pay then there could be situations where that creates financial stress for example. So maybe it doesn’t mean you don’t want to do it but simply can’t afford to do it.
> So maybe it doesn’t mean you don’t want to do it but simply can’t afford to do it.
That would of course be an acceptable excuse. I meant that for my particular situation since my peers know I can afford it, they would also know I chose not to because I dind't want to (not acceptable), or because I felt my career would suffer (not acceptable).
Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave
#313Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even if it is capped at 1800 € this is a lot of money for non tech workers. And as tech worker it should be easy to afford...
Only 25% of the working German population earns less than around 2300€, 1800€ is, at minimum , a 22% reduction in salary for 75+% of the workers. The median is about ~4100€, so more than half of a pay cut for 50% of the working population. So yes, it's a good amount but still much less than the minimum 80% here in Sweden.
You are confusing net and gross salary.
Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave
#314Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave
#315Earlier quoted context omitted.
A company has to pay workers for 49 - 59 weeks without getting any work? I'm all for parental leave, but that's a full year. Does the government subsidize this? That expense could sink a small company. What happens if the workers leave the company after getting the benefit? I'm really curious how European firms compete with American ones when workers can take so much time off and saddle their companies with so much r…
It's the government paying. Up to a fixed amount. But most high earners are in a position where the company will pay the difference as a perk. If it were companies having to pay, that would probably lead to some aversion about hiring people without children in the right age. But that's probably an aversion lots of companies in other countries have about women. "Will they have kids and leave the workforce soon?". I st…
If you want to force an even split or not depends on if you see the system as something that enables people to make choices that are good, or something that makes them do what you think is good (for the parents in question or for the society in general).
I know a couple that had two children. He wanted a third child. She wanted a PhD. The current Swedish system enabled them to have a child and let him take virtually all the leave while she finished her PhD. But some social engineers would rather not let them have that choice, because the aim is a perfect 50/50 split for all couples in a column of a report somewhere.
(Or even worse, they would be fine with this particular case, but would object if it was she that wanted the third kid and he that wanted a PhD, because a 50/50 split in aggregate also looks pretty good, and this would work towards that in the present situation...)
Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave
#316Here in "flyover country, USA" I was looked down upon for asking to use two weeks of my own PTO after my company's new 'generous' two week paid parental leave. That request was constantly pushed off until the week of my wife's induction, when it was formally declined. I was told the request was 'excessive' and that generally the woman needs more time to recover but the father doesn't need much time. I guess our menta…
As a counterpoint also in fly over country w/ a 4 month old, I was basically given as much time as I wanted. Granted I only took a few weeks because I was jonesing to get back, but I have peers that have taken months off. This isn't to discount your general point about lack of compassion, just to discount what seemed to be the assumption that it is always the case and/or is related to the middle of the country.
Why can't you use the remaining amount of time at a later date?
Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave
#317Earlier quoted context omitted.
Before people think that this policy is all roses, a close friend of mine is the CEO of a multi billion dollar international business. They don’t hire anyone from France because the French government makes it so difficult to fire a bad hire. Maybe you could argue that the French are better off without them, but people love working for them and they have great pay and benefits. I’m sure there are a number of companies…
> They don’t hire anyone from France because the French government makes it so difficult to fire a bad hire That's why you have a 6 months trial period, right ?
For "cadres" ("executives" but really anyone with a job title requiring university degree like engineers) then the trial period can be extended to 8 months in France. By then you should know if you have made a bad hire.
Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave
#318In Sweden each parent can get up to 240 days (8 months). It's still being debated if the duration is too long, causing more problems than the benefit it brings the child and the family.
Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave
#319Earlier quoted context omitted.
A company has to pay workers for 49 - 59 weeks without getting any work? I'm all for parental leave, but that's a full year. Does the government subsidize this? That expense could sink a small company. What happens if the workers leave the company after getting the benefit? I'm really curious how European firms compete with American ones when workers can take so much time off and saddle their companies with so much r…
The salaries for devs in Europe are quite a bit lower than the SF/NYC/Seattle/Boston/Austin markets. You can look at it as they’re “buying” these (and other) benefits via lower salaries across the entire market.
"Buying" perks is ok-ish - the difference with state-regulated perks is that the employer has no way to tell 'no' to say, paternity leave. In other case, you never get the certainty that you'll be allowed to use your perk when need it.
Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave
#320I think my brother who had his first child two months ago is going to be a little disappointed that it wasn't passed a few months ago. (though he used a bunch of PTO to stay with his wife and their child)