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Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

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Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#441
The reason why it’s an issue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perception_management

The internet has turned into a war zone of perception management involving state and non state entities. The non state entities are able to do things in quite powerful ways never before possible for a civilian level technology. Any hacker with creativity and GPT2 can manipulate hordes of people with a human in a loop pattern.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#442
post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely Facebook’s a bigger issue than 60 second videos since any bad actor can target messaging at susceptibile users and no one will know. This just seems like yet another case of Republican double speak. Say one thing do a different thing that just coincidentally happens to grab power over others. Also, what is the method of using a 60 second video platform to share messaging with a crowd who will immediately scrol…

Actually, it is not. I am not R or D, I am Russian programmer who lives in Russia and likes to read. One of things I've read already long ago is about priming: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5266685/ Showing one different pictures change walking speed, at the very least. And effects can last as long as year: http://www.bm.ust.hk/mark/files/staff/Bob/mkwyer-JCP-2014-24... TikTok, being a massive analytic…

> Facebook is primarily text which is low bandwidth and it goes through higher thinking.

Today Facebook is mostly images, livestreams and videos.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#443
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seriously think that if one of those decided to influence election (for a greater good of course) you would expect direct cooperation of FB in the matter? I'd think that the guilty party should be prosecuted for doing things like that.

He's talking about handing over information, not launching a "elect the next Manchurian candidate" campaign run by the NSA.

Then he'd completely missed my original point that was about practical inability to prevent that exact scenario - "elect the next Manchurian candidate campaign run by the NSA". I do not think juducial review will enter the picture here. I am not sure what practical legal mechanism is available to prevent such scenario. I guess it would run the risk of being exposed by some whistleblower but with the latest developments in the area the chances are that it wont.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#444
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s evidence online, I don’t have it handy but a quick search found this: https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/fxgi06/not_new_news...

seriously? A reddit comment? By the way, they never provided any proof and even better, claimed that their laptop broke when pressed.

“ The Chinese government and the Chinese Communist Party exert control over many forms of media in China, including newspapers and the Internet. All Chinese media, including newspapers, periodicals, news agencies, TV stations, broadcasting, the movie industry and art performances, are categorized and managed as "mouthpieces" of the Communist Party, used to manipulate public opinion and exercise "mind control" on its citizens.[70] "Mind control" includes "indoctrination from kindergarten to college through officially compiled textbooks, as all teachers are categorized as 'educators of CCP' (The Chinese Communist Party)". According to Qinglian He, a former Chinese government propagandist and now a senior researcher at Human Rights in China, by exercising "mind control", the Chinese government has misled the Chinese population about the values of human rights and democracy, and also about the truth.[71] The Propaganda and Information Leading Group is generally responsible for censorship and control of information. The unit is also one of the largest in the CCP leadership organ.[72]”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perception_management

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#445
post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US does in fact do the same. It limits the high-level IP transfers so that China cannot develop and compete higher up in the technology chain. You think the fact that they manufacture the world's plastic crap and assemble iPhones is an enviable position? The reason why we're stepping it up is because China has shown that they can domestically grow successful tech and social media companies that can penetrate the…

This is a minor issue in the TikTok war. #1 is national security. #2 is trade, level playing field i.e. tit-for-tat policies. Secondary issues are: a) As you say, competitive fears - but TikTok is not a threat in that sense. b) Trump's personal ambitions and elections. TT users apparently screwed up his GOP nomination event. Likely nothing at all to do with CCP, but Trump is an emotional guy, and I think this is 'him…

#1 can be used to justify anything. It also sets a dangerous precedent for other countries to start blocking / severely limiting US social media companies.

#2 Blocking apps used for the dissemination of information is a free-speech issue. China blocks information because that's what they believe in. US blocking information is fundamentally against our beliefs. If China jumped off a bridge would we do so as well?

#2 however is the true reason. We're getting insecure about our dominance in certain industries and are applying more "tit-for-tat" policies—even if they contradict our core beliefs.

If China wants to block US social media companies that should be perfectly fine. They get less domestic competition, and lower quality social media services should develop (in theory at least). We should welcome their competition despite this because competition breeds innovation and a healthy competitive landscape. However in reality we're resorting to tit-for-tat tactics because we're insecure about the fundamental superiority of a free and competitive market's ability to develop market-leading businesses and innovation.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#446
post #280

A lot of people being brainwashed by the US government in here.

It’s the typical measure of rubes. I still remember the “freedom fries” and WMD hysteria. Back then a certain group had to be bombed back into the Stone Age. Today, that same group is being oppressed by the evil totalitarian regime which is also on the verge of destroying all of your freedoms. In both cases, a collection of plugged in, “informed” citizens, whose brain matter has been shaped by a constant drip of stat…

So our freedoms are not actually under threat? Not even the freedom to use TikTok, I guess, despite of the US government trying to ban it?

Everything is fine!

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can buy location data on millions of people across the world right now from American companies who make free apps What exactly is stopping the Chinese from buying that same data? Name one hindrance they will face, please. The delusional jingoism on HN is painful to fight. https://apnews.com/f6a83c0b8e0a65563e4c76955c37c0ab

But they cannot buy the same data - the quantity and quality of the data they obtain themselves (through apps like TikTok and WeChat that are running in the background 24/7 while collecting any information possible, such as secretly copying your clipboard which is likely to reveal passwords and other sensitive information) is far higher than what they could pay for. You’re also ignoring the fact that they can use the…

> they’ve for instance chosen to omit the fact that the Wuhan Virus originated in China.

Any social media platforms using the term "Wuhan Virus" would be a bigger sign of governmental propaganda than the lack is.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#448
post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think that zoomers are more likely to be influenced by social media than boomers or millenials?

I don’t think they’re any less or any more other than the potential net vectors exposed. A boomer typically has traditional media as a source of information which shapes their world view. These channels have their own programming and narratives. The zoomers are entirely on internet platforms which has a higher degree of manipulation. Every single person is mined against. Every single person gets optimized against. Th…

Depending upon if you're counting daily or regular usage, it looks like somewhere between 50+% (daily) and 75+% (occasional usage) of boomers are on facebook. The number for YouTube are a bit lower but not by much. For comparison, Tiktok, the Gen Z share is about 50%.

That is more than enough boomers being algorithmically swayed to alter an election. As has been shown (Cambridge Analytica, etc...) Facebook's segmentation arguably offers more power to target it's user than Tiktok does.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm way more afraid of the US Government than the CCP. They're actually relevant to my life, beyond a vague "politics affects us all" kind of way. I'm more afraid of the guy holding a stick over my head than the guy a mile away, no matter what that dude is up to.

The problem with an autocracy is that they will not cease until any threat to their existence can be stamped out or controlled. Nations continued to hope Nazi Germany would just stop its expansion and placate Hitler until it was clear he had no intention of stopping. Last week it was discovered that an additional half a million Tibetans [1] were sent to join the Uighurs in labor camps. When do the democracies of the…

>The problem with an autocracy is that they will not cease until any threat to their existence can be stamped out or controlled

Yes, I already said I was afraid of the US Government.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#450
post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a minor issue in the TikTok war. #1 is national security. #2 is trade, level playing field i.e. tit-for-tat policies. Secondary issues are: a) As you say, competitive fears - but TikTok is not a threat in that sense. b) Trump's personal ambitions and elections. TT users apparently screwed up his GOP nomination event. Likely nothing at all to do with CCP, but Trump is an emotional guy, and I think this is 'him…

#1 can be used to justify anything. It also sets a dangerous precedent for other countries to start blocking / severely limiting US social media companies. #2 Blocking apps used for the dissemination of information is a free-speech issue. China blocks information because that's what they believe in. US blocking information is fundamentally against our beliefs. If China jumped off a bridge would we do so as well? #2 h…

> Blocking apps used for the dissemination of information is a free-speech issue.

I think there is an argument to be made that TT is not an open forum. The only party that speaks through the app is the Chinese government.

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