Live data from Hacker News

Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

reuters.com

321–330 of 677 posts

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#321
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> shutting down a company It's not a company. It's a division of a foreign government. That was the point being made. If it was an independent company, none of this would be happening.

https://www.bytedance.com/en/#corporate-structure ByteDance Ltd. (Cayman) -> TikTok Ltd. (Cayman) -> TikTok LLC. (US) Legally it is indeed a company and not controlled by the CCP, but exactly how much of its US operations are conducted and directed by non-US citizens on non-US soil is unknown.

Google and Facebook etc also have lots of unAmerican citizens and operations on unAmerican soil.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#322
post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but how is Tik Tok a national security issue, but the fact that damn near every electronic device available on the market is manufactured in or out of components manufactured in China doesn't seem to be one?

There’s evidence online, I don’t have it handy but a quick search found this: https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/fxgi06/not_new_news...

seriously? A reddit comment?

By the way, they never provided any proof and even better, claimed that their laptop broke when pressed.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#323
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue Are you uncomfortable adopting that belief with literally no concrete evidence that anything of the sort is actually occurring? I don't know how you reconcile rule of law with such drastic interventions in the rights of companies without evidence of wrongdoing. If anything you can come up with in your most paranoid fantasies can be the basis of shutting down a…

Any business with china is a national security issue. There's plenty of evidence to the level of dictatorship in China. It's your responsibility to look at its history and make reasonable conclusions from it. If you want some sort of smoking gun evidence you're not going to find it, unless you somehow have a security clearance in China good enough to gain knowledge about their operations. It's a Chinese company, they…

> There's plenty of evidence to the level of dictatorship in China.

The political regime of the countries you deal with is not a national security issue in itself, that's not what national security means. Certainly, 'dictatorship' is not a national security issue. Some of the US's "best friends" were, and are, dictatorships.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have tiktok but according to anecdotal evidence from family members who do, the propaganda you describe seemed to be people doing stupid things in their bathroom while getting hurt in the process. You'd probably say 'potential' but just think about it, banning something for 'potential'. Is that where we are right now?

The problem is they could pull a Facebook and show certain content to change peoples moods intentionally. It's already proven possible. That said, I'm all for legislation against all social media companies.

Changing their mood would be one thing, though I doubt it'd work on TikTok as well as it might on FB, people go to TikTok for specific types of content. Propaganda would be quite another, TikTok's format doesn't seem to really work for that kind of content, it's short videos, not infographics and texts.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#325

Unlike some other commenters below, I don't believe that this is a privacy issue. Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue because TikTok is controllable by the CCP which is ideologically opposed to the United States. The next global conflict will likely be one between the east and the west, with control of information being advantageous to both sides in the conflict. China already blocks the western I…

The part i dont get - zoom also has ties to China.

Everyone focuses on tiktok which is kids making stupid videos, but zoom which almost certainly has massive amounts of highly sensitive info going through it, seems to raise very few eye brows comparatively.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you honestly believe that geopolitics don’t play a role in China banning US tech companies? You think China would allow Google if it censored search results?

Of course they play a role, and those same Chinese laws also dictate that any foreign IT company needs to have a local partner. But in the unlikely event of Google agreeing to a JV that cedes enough power to a local company, then sure, why not? That's how eg. AWS China operates: https://www.amazonaws.cn/en/about-aws/china/ FWIW, Google already has a substantial presence in China, but they don't target consumers there…

Google search is not available to consumers, but Google Ads are, and they definitely target any eyeballs they can. Of course most Chinese websites don't use Google for their ads, but when a Chinese user visits a foreign website that does, Google controls what they'll be seeing. And to be allowed to keep doing that, Google censors the ads they show: https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-bans-vpn-ads-in-china/

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#327

Unlike some other commenters below, I don't believe that this is a privacy issue. Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue because TikTok is controllable by the CCP which is ideologically opposed to the United States. The next global conflict will likely be one between the east and the west, with control of information being advantageous to both sides in the conflict. China already blocks the western I…

Or we could look at history and accepr that the US changes the rules whenever it is eclipsed or finds itself outdone at its own game. See Japan 1980s Nah, the ideology is manufactured - we were just fine doing business with them and we keep being just fine doing business with the Saudis or any number of ideologically 'opposed countries.

Every couple of decades we need a new boogeyman to fight against. Right now it's China. Every one of their companies is "controlled by the CCP" hence a CCP stooge. Clearly we must destroy these companies by any means necessary, that or outright take them over.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#328

Unlike some other commenters below, I don't believe that this is a privacy issue. Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue because TikTok is controllable by the CCP which is ideologically opposed to the United States. The next global conflict will likely be one between the east and the west, with control of information being advantageous to both sides in the conflict. China already blocks the western I…

What exactly is the national security risk with TikTok?

Blackmail material gathered from it.

Various forms of location data gathered from it, e.g. the location of any member of the military that uses it.

Launching pad for zero days if China feels the need to root someones (or many someones) phones.

Massive social graph, massive amounts of behavioral data. Useful, for doing things like identifying who was likely recruited by a spy agency or identifying potential assets that can be turned.

Potential to pressure speech that China prefers, e.g. by rewarding popular creators with money only if they don't say things China likes, or by decreasing the reach of people who say things China dislikes.

Potential for foreign control of the general trends of content people see. E.g. tweaking the algorithm so "it just happens" to suppress the potential to suppress topics china would prefer we didn't talk about (e.g. their "re-education" camps) or to boost topics they would prefer we did (likely things like political infighting).

Most of these involve various levels of overtness. Many of them it probably only makes sense to start doing once you've captured the market (right now it's more important to onboard more people than to push a message). But I would view all of them as real threats if I was the US government.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#329
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s evidence online, I don’t have it handy but a quick search found this: https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/fxgi06/not_new_news...

seriously? A reddit comment? By the way, they never provided any proof and even better, claimed that their laptop broke when pressed.

Yeah, sorry I was rushing and wasn’t thinking on how much time I had to investigate. Well it’s out there... Sucks but all I know is I’ve seen it. It could be buried heavily by now. There has been infosec evidence provided.

Edit: this too? Mob mentality here. Sad. Lol if this is being downvoted I have some words for you.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there actually real limits on government in the US? If the Democrats and Republicans agreed that they wanted to do something, would anything stop them? The US government is already unconstitutionally doing what you say that judicial review prevents, and the partisan (by design) Supreme Court simply refuses to take the case. So much for judicial review. There is no check for power, only balances of power. And powe…

Are you seriously equating the two govts? Consider that, because hackernews/YC is a US company, your post is read by everyone who cares to see it. Consider what would happen if you decried the powers of the CCP on a China-based platform. Consider what would happen to you, personally, if you did so while living in China.

Criticizing the government and the powers of the CCP are perfectly fair game - these kinds of over the top misinformed takes unfortunately plague HN.

Obviously, China silences dissenters. However, most of the comments in this thread probably wouldn't even be removed.

Take this study (cited 1600 times) from Harvard:

https://gking.harvard.edu/publications/how-censorship-china-...

Post reply on HN