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Last Phase of the Desktop Wars?

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Re: Last Phase of the Desktop Wars?

#141

Post by thelazydogsback »

znpy wrote: post #131
thelazydogsback wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Windows was very good for desktop but had stability problems. Nowadays Windows is just awful for the desktop user, Microsoft is literally conducting a war against its own users. I don't get this. I've been using *nix since PDP11 and VAX/Ultrix and I have no problems with Win10 at all, stability or otherwise - I'd much rather use it as a desktop dev environment than Linux. When it comes time to deploy something, sur…

We technical people should really start to understand that we're not the average use. Not even close. I'd have no problem in mutilating Windows enough to make it usable, and keeping an eye for when it tries to do something nasty. But the average user won't, and will have a computing experience filled with unnecessary advertising, encumbered by background processing and bandwitdh usage (telemetry collection and other…

Advertising? I've never seen an ad. Are you talking about some OEM Windows install with extra bits??

Re: Last Phase of the Desktop Wars?

#142

Post by thelazydogsback »

thelazydogsback wrote: post #140
znpy wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We technical people should really start to understand that we're not the average use. Not even close. I'd have no problem in mutilating Windows enough to make it usable, and keeping an eye for when it tries to do something nasty. But the average user won't, and will have a computing experience filled with unnecessary advertising, encumbered by background processing and bandwitdh usage (telemetry collection and other…

I guess it depends on what you want to spend your time and emotional energy on. I use Win10 as it is "out of the box", and apply all automatic updates. If MS wants my telemetry or whatever, that's okay by me. If I'm in Firefox or running multiple VsCode/VStudio/IntelliJ/etc instances or running bash scripts or whatever, I can't see how it would offend so much - but I guess that's just me - but I'm not even trying to…

If I had long-running servers at home or were using a runtime that didn't run on Windows very naturally, I supposed I'd feel differently - but that's not the case at the moment.

Re: Last Phase of the Desktop Wars?

#143

Post by [deleted] »

znpy wrote: post #89

I really don't care much about the desktop wars thing, but if there's one thing that I honestly thing this is it: In the desktop wars nobody has really won, but all the users have lost. GNU/Linux on the desktop has improved a lot, but it's still very far from being good. Mac OS is very good, but it's extremely expensive because of the hardware. Windows was very good for desktop but had stability problems. Nowadays Wi…

[deleted]

Re: Last Phase of the Desktop Wars?

#144

Post by littlestymaar »

znpy wrote: post #89

I really don't care much about the desktop wars thing, but if there's one thing that I honestly thing this is it: In the desktop wars nobody has really won, but all the users have lost. GNU/Linux on the desktop has improved a lot, but it's still very far from being good. Mac OS is very good, but it's extremely expensive because of the hardware. Windows was very good for desktop but had stability problems. Nowadays Wi…

> Mac OS is very good, but it's extremely expensive because of the hardware.

Every update for the past 5 years had gone between bad and nightmarish, and the power user ergonomics are going from bad to worse every time. MacOs was probably the best OS in 2015, but it has steadily damaged itself since then.

The solitaire example you give is a good illustration: on MacOS Catalina, you wouldn't be able to run the given binary without clicking twice on a button saying almost “yes I want to install a virus that will destroy my computer”, the default choice being “delete the said file”.

Re: Last Phase of the Desktop Wars?

#145

Post by SomeHacker44 »

greyman wrote: post #34

Just a sidenote, after 25 years of using Windows, I switched to OSX. But following the article logic, that can also be considered a Unix. :-)

I did the opposite. After switching to OSX 16 years ago, I am switching to Windows.

Either way I have been a Linux user since 1992.

Reasons:

* WSL1/2 * Better, cheaper laptops and desktops with better keyboards, F-keys, more GPUs * No wondering when the next thing Apple will do to remove something I use (F-keys, ESC, 32-bit, ability to actually do stuff on my own filesystem, etc.) or break something that just worked (like Homebrew) ...

Re: Last Phase of the Desktop Wars?

#146

Post by unnouinceput »

eyeball wrote: post #133
unnouinceput wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, that one. Thought is well known by now. 1st tool to download after a fresh install, even before I download Total Commander.

How do you know it's safe? I cringe at giving admin rights to a .exe downloaded from the net.

Time. Since was released none report it as "bad". I'm using it for over an year now and I found out about it here on HN.

Re: Last Phase of the Desktop Wars?

#147

Post by rstuart4133 »

fsflover wrote: post #139
znpy wrote: post #89

I really don't care much about the desktop wars thing, but if there's one thing that I honestly thing this is it: In the desktop wars nobody has really won, but all the users have lost. GNU/Linux on the desktop has improved a lot, but it's still very far from being good. Mac OS is very good, but it's extremely expensive because of the hardware. Windows was very good for desktop but had stability problems. Nowadays Wi…

> GNU/Linux on the desktop has improved a lot, but it's still very far from being good. Not sure what you are talking about. Just buy a Linux-certified laptop and don't install Linux on Windows-certified one and it will work just fine. Happy Linux user here.

yeah, that statement surprised me too.

I guess the most telling statement about it came from my wife. She asked me to do to her laptop whatever I did to my daughters to make it run so fast. What I had done was replace Windows with Linux. I suspect I have the rapid change mobile phone GUI's to thank for no one even bothering to mention the difference between Linux and Windows - let alone needing to ask how to use it. How can they be "very far from being good" when they are so close?

I guess I'm biased, as for me Linux + Cinnamon about as good as it gets. But it is a close thing. They are all good - Android, iOS, OSX, and yes Windows. I'd put Windows at the bottom of the pile, mostly because it's slow and because Microsoft's continual nags to hook you into their ecosystem (one drive, get Microsoft account, email, yada, yada). Oh, and the other annoying thing about Windows is the 1/2 baked transition between the control panel and the newfangled way of configuring things. There is enough clicking as it is without having to check a bunch places for a setting.

Re: Last Phase of the Desktop Wars?

#148

Post by AtlasBarfed »

The last phase of desktop wars is apathy, unfortunately.

OSX is ignored/unimproved by Apple. Windows is ignored/unimproved by Microsoft. Linux continues to be horribly balkanized, and lacks market share to be fundamentally improved.

Re: Last Phase of the Desktop Wars?

#149

Post by magnetowasright »

znpy wrote: post #89

I really don't care much about the desktop wars thing, but if there's one thing that I honestly thing this is it: In the desktop wars nobody has really won, but all the users have lost. GNU/Linux on the desktop has improved a lot, but it's still very far from being good. Mac OS is very good, but it's extremely expensive because of the hardware. Windows was very good for desktop but had stability problems. Nowadays Wi…

Totally agree that users have lost.

> GNU/Linux on the desktop has improved a lot, but it's still very far from being good.

What do you think is lacking for it to be 'good'?

Re: Last Phase of the Desktop Wars?

#150

Post by hackerfromthefu »

zabzonk wrote: post #55
mdifrgechd wrote: post #18

I'm buying a new computer. Currently I have only ubuntu linux machines and was just saying to someone that I would actually consider trying windows and WSL because it would let me use the linux tools I want alongside MS office, and it might be interesting to play with windows versions of things. The reason I wont actually do it though is because I'm sure that windows will be filled with commercially oriented intrusio…

I use Windows 10 with Classic Start Menu. I see no adverts. I do see some notifications, almost all of which are useful. Probably you should try things first, before jumping to conclusions - I find Windows 10 a pretty good experience, and yes, I have also been using Linux for about 30 years.

So do I .. however recently Windows has been causing Classic Start Menu upgrade commands to fail - Classic still seems to work, but I don't know for how long.

I think this is a trend of MS breaking the tools we use to get some control back over Windows, because they've broken some of my others recently also, such as Windows defender flagging Spybot S&D's immunization as a hosts hijack. And of course there's no easy way to work around that, pressing ignore didn't work it produce the same result as quarantine .. I'm so angry at MS for all the shit they push, but there's just not a better alternative they closely walk the line of costs/benefits .. which is why I fear that as their position on the desktop strengthens with things like wide WSL adoption, we will see more of their anti-features and domineering breakages of the tools people write to resist them.

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