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French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

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Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#31

Post by pmiller2 »

klipt wrote: post #30
souprock wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is enough time to have another kid. I have 12 so far. If I lived in Sweden, I wouldn't have to work. I could keep it going for decades. It's odd that Swedes aren't taking full advantage of the situation.

Probably not many houses in Sweden can fit 12 kids?

I’d say it’s probably more like there aren’t many Swedes who could deal with a house with 12 kids. The after school logistics alone must be a nightmare.

Either that, or there’s something plugging the loophole the GP mentions.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#32

Post by klipt »

renewiltord wrote: post #23
bluedevil2k wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it possibly make the world a better place if fathers were forced to not work?! Forcing someone to stop working would likely piss a lot of people off, and would generally hurt the companies these fathers work for.

It's a worldview that's pretty common. You equalize inherent advantages by denying everyone them when you cannot add them to some people. For instance, you cannot operate a store of a certain size without accommodating disabled people. i.e. even non-disabled people are denied the ability to shop there. Another example (that is very different) is where UC Berkeley was forced to pull course videos it had put up because…

I wonder if someday it'll be considered woke to oppose abortion because trans women can't have abortions.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#33

Post by gnicholas »

Paternity leave can be a great thing for father/child bonding, and for equalizing opportunity for women (who face greater social/practical pressure to take their leave), who can fall behind male colleagues by taking their leave. Unfortunately, it's hard to force men to take their leave, and in the US a lot of men don't because it is frowned upon socially in many companies.

One possible way to incentivize men to take paternity leave is to do so indirectly, by rewarding companies where a large percentage of eligible fathers take the full leave. This would reverse the current dynamic, which is: if you take the full leave, you're putting your family above the company, and not being a team player. Instead, taking the leave would make you a team player and help the company fulfill the goal.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#34

Post by rapsey »

> Studies have shown that paternity leave can set the tone for fathers’ long-term relationships with their children and families. Children whose fathers took at least two weeks of paternity leave reported feeling closer to their dads even nine years later, according to a joint study of sociology professors at Ball State University and Ohio State University, which also found that paternity leave is linked to lower divorce rates.

Causation/correlation.

Coming from a country where the father can take 30 days. Honestly for the vast majority of births the father is unnecessary to be there after two weeks. The child spends the first month basically eating and sleeping. The father needs to be there to help the mother while she recovers and two weeks is enough.

Of the fathers I know who took the full 30 days, they did so for home improvement projects not because they were actually needed that much.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#35

Post by garbagetime »

souprock wrote: post #29
car wrote: post #22

Compare this to 480 days of shared and paid parental leave in Sweden at 80% salary. The fathers are looked at negatively if the don’t take some of this time. https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-maternity-leave-pater...

That is enough time to have another kid. I have 12 so far. If I lived in Sweden, I wouldn't have to work. I could keep it going for decades. It's odd that Swedes aren't taking full advantage of the situation.

Most swedes don't want so many kids.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#36

Post by [deleted] »

rapsey wrote: post #34

> Studies have shown that paternity leave can set the tone for fathers’ long-term relationships with their children and families. Children whose fathers took at least two weeks of paternity leave reported feeling closer to their dads even nine years later, according to a joint study of sociology professors at Ball State University and Ohio State University, which also found that paternity leave is linked to lower div…

[deleted]

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#37

Post by adamsea »

rapsey wrote: post #34

> Studies have shown that paternity leave can set the tone for fathers’ long-term relationships with their children and families. Children whose fathers took at least two weeks of paternity leave reported feeling closer to their dads even nine years later, according to a joint study of sociology professors at Ball State University and Ohio State University, which also found that paternity leave is linked to lower div…

This is ... based on your own observation and experience?

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#38

Post by gnicholas »

rapsey wrote: post #34

> Studies have shown that paternity leave can set the tone for fathers’ long-term relationships with their children and families. Children whose fathers took at least two weeks of paternity leave reported feeling closer to their dads even nine years later, according to a joint study of sociology professors at Ball State University and Ohio State University, which also found that paternity leave is linked to lower div…

> Honestly for the vast majority of births the father is unnecessary to be there after two weeks. The child spends the first month basically eating and sleeping. The father needs to be there to help the mother while she recovers.

So are you saying the father doesn't need to be there for the child after two weeks? Or are you saying he only needs to be there to help the mother after two weeks?

I've heard of some maternity leave policies that differ based on type of birth (longer time off for caesarean), and it would actually make sense to give fathers the same so that they can help the mother. Of course, you are absolutely right that some fathers take leave but don't spend it caring for wife/child. I'm not sure how to get around this problem, but it seems that we shouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater, to use a terribl(y appropriate) turn of phrase. We just have to understand that some people will abuse the policy, but that overall there is a net benefit (to fathers, children, and mothers) to offering it.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#39

Post by adamsea »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #13
dleslie wrote: post #4

It really irked me that here in Canada the options were generally skewed towards mothers remaining home. You can split 40 weeks of parental leave, but many employers won't provide parental benefits and those that do often only provide parental benefits to mothers. For instance, my employer at the time provided wage top-up for women on leave but nothing for men. Just one of _many_ structually sexist policies in societ…

Biology tends to be structurally sexist as well. The only solution is to essentially force fathers to stop working as well during this time. This is equality of outcome.

Thank god humans invented culture and society ;)

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#40

Post by gwenzek »

rapsey wrote: post #34

> Studies have shown that paternity leave can set the tone for fathers’ long-term relationships with their children and families. Children whose fathers took at least two weeks of paternity leave reported feeling closer to their dads even nine years later, according to a joint study of sociology professors at Ball State University and Ohio State University, which also found that paternity leave is linked to lower div…

> Honestly for the vast majority of births the father is unnecessary to be there after two weeks. The child spends the first month basically eating and sleeping.

I took 3 months off for my first and 4 months for the second. My wife was pretty miserable through the first month. Breastfeeding is exhausting, as well as being woke up at various time of the night. I'm glad I was home so I could take care of the rest.

I agree that afterwards things got easier, and we were able to enjoy some vacations.

But still there is a huge difference between spending a few hours at the beach with the baby and going back to work whole day.

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