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French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

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Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#11

Post by WalterBright »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #9
pacamara619 wrote: post #5

Meanwhile the Swiss people voted to have two weeks of paternity leave instead of one day. The icing on the cake is that the actual initiative asked for four weeks but the parliament made a counter-proposal of two weeks after which the intiative committee withdrew their proposal of four. 60% of the voters were in favor. Two weeks in one of the highest gdp per capita countries of the world. Two. Measly. Weeks. It was j…

It’s zero in all but ~10 US states if your employer has fewer than 50 employees. And even then, the leave is unpaid.

> the leave is unpaid

All employer-paid employee benefits ultimately come with a reduction in salary. The reason is simple - companies do not look at your salary when deciding if it is worth hiring you. They look at total compensation (salary + benefits). The larger the benefits, the lower the salary.

Me, I prefer minimal benefits and maximal salary.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#12

Post by lotsofpulp »

WalterBright wrote: post #11
lotsofpulp wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s zero in all but ~10 US states if your employer has fewer than 50 employees. And even then, the leave is unpaid.

> the leave is unpaid All employer-paid employee benefits ultimately come with a reduction in salary. The reason is simple - companies do not look at your salary when deciding if it is worth hiring you. They look at total compensation (salary + benefits). The larger the benefits, the lower the salary. Me, I prefer minimal benefits and maximal salary.

Some states (and other countries) offer paid family leave (not only applicable to births) via payroll taxes, i.e. wealth redistribution.

Me, I prefer a society where children have a higher probability of being attended to by their parents even if it costs me some money.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#13

Post by mensetmanusman »

dleslie wrote: post #4

It really irked me that here in Canada the options were generally skewed towards mothers remaining home. You can split 40 weeks of parental leave, but many employers won't provide parental benefits and those that do often only provide parental benefits to mothers. For instance, my employer at the time provided wage top-up for women on leave but nothing for men. Just one of _many_ structually sexist policies in societ…

Biology tends to be structurally sexist as well. The only solution is to essentially force fathers to stop working as well during this time. This is equality of outcome.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#14

Post by markdown »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #13
dleslie wrote: post #4

It really irked me that here in Canada the options were generally skewed towards mothers remaining home. You can split 40 weeks of parental leave, but many employers won't provide parental benefits and those that do often only provide parental benefits to mothers. For instance, my employer at the time provided wage top-up for women on leave but nothing for men. Just one of _many_ structually sexist policies in societ…

Biology tends to be structurally sexist as well. The only solution is to essentially force fathers to stop working as well during this time. This is equality of outcome.

> The only solution is to essentially force fathers to stop working as well during this time

That isn't the only solution, but it's one that could work and would make the world a better place.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#15

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

dleslie wrote: post #4

It really irked me that here in Canada the options were generally skewed towards mothers remaining home. You can split 40 weeks of parental leave, but many employers won't provide parental benefits and those that do often only provide parental benefits to mothers. For instance, my employer at the time provided wage top-up for women on leave but nothing for men. Just one of _many_ structually sexist policies in societ…

A good start would be outlawing negative scoring of candidates due to gaps.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#16

Post by dragonwriter »

jeromegv wrote: post #10
dleslie wrote: post #4

It really irked me that here in Canada the options were generally skewed towards mothers remaining home. You can split 40 weeks of parental leave, but many employers won't provide parental benefits and those that do often only provide parental benefits to mothers. For instance, my employer at the time provided wage top-up for women on leave but nothing for men. Just one of _many_ structually sexist policies in societ…

Well we can’t do anything about employers, that’s why relying on employers as a social net is ridiculous (what’s the % of people that have parental benefits from their employers? Surely a minority) This needs to be managed through the government. Quebec has done a good job at it. And yes, it can be used by either the father or the mother without any problem.

> Well we can’t do anything about employers

You can, indeed, mandate equal practices by employers and enforce that requirement.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#17

Post by bluedevil2k »

markdown wrote: post #14
mensetmanusman wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biology tends to be structurally sexist as well. The only solution is to essentially force fathers to stop working as well during this time. This is equality of outcome.

> The only solution is to essentially force fathers to stop working as well during this time That isn't the only solution, but it's one that could work and would make the world a better place.

Why would it possibly make the world a better place if fathers were forced to not work?! Forcing someone to stop working would likely piss a lot of people off, and would generally hurt the companies these fathers work for.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#18

Post by dragonwriter »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #2

Spain found that parental leave resulted in fewer children. Ha. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00472...

> Spain found that parental leave resulted in fewer children.

That's long been known to be true of social support and safety nets generally, so it's not a surprise that it would be true of parental leave, which is a subset of that.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#19

Post by jkinudsjknds »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #17
markdown wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only solution is to essentially force fathers to stop working as well during this time That isn't the only solution, but it's one that could work and would make the world a better place.

Why would it possibly make the world a better place if fathers were forced to not work?! Forcing someone to stop working would likely piss a lot of people off, and would generally hurt the companies these fathers work for.

Pretty sure less than 1% of the population would be pissed off by being told not to work but still getting paid.

Also, its far more likely that men will be pressured into working despite this.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#20

Post by lukebitts »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #17
markdown wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only solution is to essentially force fathers to stop working as well during this time That isn't the only solution, but it's one that could work and would make the world a better place.

Why would it possibly make the world a better place if fathers were forced to not work?! Forcing someone to stop working would likely piss a lot of people off, and would generally hurt the companies these fathers work for.

The first few weeks can be really difficult for parents, having both of them free of work can be beneficial for the couple and the child.
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