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Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

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Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#991

Post by boomboomsubban »

sk2020 wrote: post #990
boomboomsubban wrote: post #954

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at the history of Mozilla's revenue, this conspiracy is ridiculous. Why would Yahoo compete over the Firefox contract if they serve as a hedge against a lawsuit?

Why would you (Google) not prefer for someone else (yahoo!) to pay for something that benefits you? That Yahoo! leadership didn't renew the contract should tell you how much being a default search engine is actually worth. Why would you (actual you) believe that Google would provide nearly all of a "competitor's" revenue? that somehow makes more sense? The pontificating about privacy Mozilla does is total nonsense. T…

Yahoo was bought out during the term of the contact. And I don't know the details, but I believe Google pays Apple for the same thing, paying Mozilla isn't surprising.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#992

Post by KyleBerezin »

I actually just uninstalled the android version of Firefox after using it for many years.

I had downloaded a podcast in advance for a road trip. I went to open it via the Firefox notification and it said "you have no app that can open mp3s" which is wrong. After that I went to Files to launch it manually, but it wasn't there (it must have saved it in a non-standard location). Finally I went into Firefox and couldn't find the downloads page, only to find out they removed that feature.

I was frustrated and shocked by Mozilla's incompetence. I had 3 different methods of accessing that file and they screwed up all of them. Even if these issues are fixed I probably won't return, I need to be convinced Mozilla has fixed its management issues.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#993

Post by TheRealPomax »

cs702 wrote: post #774
TheRealPomax wrote: post #757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the internet, "recent" is not an very useful word. Even 5 years ago is literally a different era of the web already, so holding someone to account for shuttering things that for all the world seemed a great idea 5 years ago after only a few years because the web itself stopped being interested in those things is kind of missing the point. All those things are attempts at doing exactly what you're accusing them of…

Please don't attack a straw-man. I agree with you: they are "searching for new hit products" -- that's in fact what I wrote above. But that's what profit-seeking businesses do. Is Mozilla a profit-seeking business, or is it a non-profit, or is it neither, or is it both? Is Mozilla truly trying to "put people before profit," as its website currently claims?[a] The answer today, I think, is no. "Sustainability" (i.e.,…

> But that's what profit-seeking businesses do

No, it isn't: it's what everyone has to do, because you need to make enough money to at the very least cover your expenses.

Mozilla may be a non-profit, but being a non-profit does NOT mean "doesn't need to make money": they still have 750 employees that need to be paid, offices around the world that need rent paid (despite COVID), global infrastructure that needs to be paid for, SaaS for employees and contractors that collectively runs in the tens (if not more) of thousands of dollars a month, etc. etc. and that needs a sustainable revenue stream that isn't "hoping google will foot the bill".

Right now they're losing 7-8 digits a year. Mozilla absolutely puts people before profit, but they sure as hell aren't going to put people before surviving. That would be idiotic: you can't further a mission by going bankrupt.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#994

Post by superiorflush »

vex wrote: post #428
bambax wrote: post #253

> Mobile browsing numbers are bleak: Firefox barely exists on phones, with a market share of less than half a percent. This is baffling given that mobile Firefox has a rare feature for a mobile browser: it's able to install extensions and so can block ads. This is true, and indeed very strange. I use FF on mobile and it works perfectly. So Mozilla's problems aren't only technical, there's also a question of market aw…

Personally, I use Firefox on PC and would love to use it on my phone. Literally the only reason I use Chrome instead is because of the flow ui tab switching. I just can't stand the Firefox mobile UI for tab switching. I with there was an extension or something to change it. It's a huge shame.

Same for me!

I have been dying to switch but tab management and switching is so jarring in FF vs Chrome (on Android).

Not only that, but scrolling is also buggy because it keeps accelerating. Insufferable while online shopping, because I like to scroll-stop-scroll-stop-scroll and FF just speeds up the scrolling if the stops are too short.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#995

Post by thirdsun »

xster wrote: post #966
bambax wrote: post #253

> Mobile browsing numbers are bleak: Firefox barely exists on phones, with a market share of less than half a percent. This is baffling given that mobile Firefox has a rare feature for a mobile browser: it's able to install extensions and so can block ads. This is true, and indeed very strange. I use FF on mobile and it works perfectly. So Mozilla's problems aren't only technical, there's also a question of market aw…

Wait that's not true is it? On iOS, Safari supports content blocker since like iOS 9, and on Android, not only you can get browser ad blocks, you can get OS-wide ad blocks through local VPN blockers.

iOS content blockers pale in comparison to uBlock Origin. I use Firefox + uBlock on my Macs and wish I could do so on iPad and iPhone too.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#996

Post by jka »

kybernetikos wrote: post #970
jka wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quote in context is available here: https://answers.thenextweb.com/s/mitchell-baker-aGY62z Let's assume good faith and that executive pay in general at Mozilla was not competitive. That would be similar to a company noticing that it has been underpaying software engineers and then choosing to bump up compensation significantly. A question that raises is: do executives (and software engineers?) bring the value tha…

> Let's assume good faith and that executive pay in general at Mozilla was not competitive. The problem is that this is a very subjective claim. If you think of mozilla as belonging to the same category as tech giants or successful tech startups, and believe it needs to compete with them to attract talent then it's not unreasonable. If you think of firefox as a charity then it's completely insane. Compensation for ch…

That's a good critique.

It's pure conjecture but I'd imagine that the compensation culture in this case started near the top of the company (given that it appears executive-centric) - perhaps based on conversations with potential hires, vendors, competitors, and so forth.

Given the nature of Firefox, I'd expect many of those third parties would have been anchored in the 'tech giant' world -- perhaps leading compensation policy astray.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#997

Post by 0134340 »

BrendanEich wrote: post #983
0134340 wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, another overpaid CEO trying to cash in on the relics of pre-existing browser technology (chrome).

I founded Brave with a pay-cut to $160K/year. Note that due to my not taking anything near $2M+ salary+bonus annual comp when I was at Mozilla, I am not independently wealthy. I'm not complaining (it was worth doing Brave on many non-material grounds), but you are disparaging out of malice and ignorance. This will not work well for you in life — my two cents!

My correction then but of course as some have said here, $160k/yr for heading the modification of an existing browser and stealing donations of those who don't claim them is considered overpaid.

That said, I wanted to use and like Brave but no gestures so I moved back to Vivaldi to support another overpaid decadent CEO. You can't seem to escape them.

Oh, and 'disparaging out of malice and ignorance', well some have made a good living out of it as we see in our current climate. Not going to name names here but I'm sure you know who I'm talking about.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#998

Post by BrendanEich »

0134340 wrote: post #997
BrendanEich wrote: post #983

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I founded Brave with a pay-cut to $160K/year. Note that due to my not taking anything near $2M+ salary+bonus annual comp when I was at Mozilla, I am not independently wealthy. I'm not complaining (it was worth doing Brave on many non-material grounds), but you are disparaging out of malice and ignorance. This will not work well for you in life — my two cents!

My correction then but of course as some have said here, $160k/yr for heading the modification of an existing browser and stealing donations of those who don't claim them is considered overpaid. That said, I wanted to use and like Brave but no gestures so I moved back to Vivaldi to support another overpaid decadent CEO. You can't seem to escape them. Oh, and 'disparaging out of malice and ignorance', well some have m…

"stealing donations" is a lie. Brave gave out grants to anonymous browser instances which users could direct to be tipped. For one month we had these flow into a common wallet but we were the source and sender of funds. We fixed this by making the browser hold for 90 days retrying every 30.

You are still maliciously and ignorantly defaming me, with false claims anyone can verify from open source. This reflects badly only on you. Will Rogers' advice, free then and now, applies: when in a hole, stop digging.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#999

Post by rvz »

j-pb wrote: post #941

By abandoning rust they made their billion dollar mistake. They could have formed whole operating systems and userlands around it, Mozilla will look like Xerox. They had a golden goose but choose to pursue a dying market and product out of sheer incompetence and stagnation.

Yes. With almost many companies introducing Rust in some way, you are correct.

Sounds like Mozilla thinks they can still 'win' whilst backing a browser with a declining market share against Chrome which is clearly eclipsing it.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#1000

Post by anticristi »

deathgrips wrote: post #206
anticristi wrote: post #199

I'm really not a big fan of Google's tracking-friendly browser. However, I hate Mozilla's hypocrisy even more, trying to act like the defendants of privacy, but dependent on mis-aligned cash. In the end, I chose Chrome as a protest against this hypocrisy.

Only on Hacker News will people argue that using the defaults is taking a moral stance...

I would love to see a page with "list of common positions on HackerNews":

- Using defaults means arguing for the status quot.

- Kubernetes sucks.

- Ads suck.

etc. :)

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