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Last Phase of the Desktop Wars?

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Re: Last Phase of the Desktop Wars?

#91

Post by pjmlp »

alkonaut wrote: post #70
nix23 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Well at least I thought so Android and ChromeOS are Marketplace-(App) Runtime NOT a Linux Distro >The Linux foundation for example, thinks Android is a Linux distribution Well they compare it with embedded Linux: https://www.linuxfoundation.org/blog/2013/03/intro-to-embedd... > Wikipedia and others list it as a distribution. No they don't: >>Android is a mobile operating system based on a modified version of the Lin…

What are the criteria required for an OS using the Linux kernel to be called a “distribution” then? Including GNU or free software in the definition seems arbitrary... Is there a class of applications (that aren’t apps from a store) that must be runnable? Or do you mean that distro is short for “GNU/Linux distribution”? I’m not arguing for/against (since it’s obviously a long-standing debate), what I’m interested in…

Yes, a distro implies GNU/Linux.

Neither ChromeOS nor Android expose the Linux kernel directly to userspace apps, so for them is irrelevant what kernel is being used.

Re: Last Phase of the Desktop Wars?

#92

Post by eigen »

eyeball wrote: post #86
unnouinceput wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I solve it. Here's my setup: - don't use online account, but offline (local) one - use WPD to uncheck absolutely everything related to windows telemetry / sending info. I keep only updates and those set to manual. - and can't stress this enough - get a PiHole, either on RPi or re-purpose a crappy old laptop. This one is also good for your smartcrap you usually get to your spouse/kids

WPD?

probably Windows Privacy Dashboard.

https://wpd.app/

Re: Last Phase of the Desktop Wars?

#93

Post by TheRealPomax »

pjmlp wrote: post #67
TheRealPomax wrote: post #56

> and Linux finally wins the desktop wars, not by displacing Windows but by co-opting it That's not a "win", though. That's "being subsumed". After all, if LSW works, why would anyone with normal computing needs ever need to install Linux on a computer ever again? Or even in a VM, for that matter? As long as they have Windows, they get the parts of Linux they need for free, without the headache of actually learning t…

Not all, my Windows machines are yet to see any instance of WSL running. As for your bash example, I have run various versions of it across many kinds of POSIX like OSes. Yes Linux is irrelevant, it is just a free beer UNIX clone, tomorrow another UNIX clone can take its place.

If you've run many kinds of POSIX-like OSes, it should be fairly obvious you're not the vast majority of folks when it comes to the Windows user base.

Re: Last Phase of the Desktop Wars?

#94

Post by pjmlp »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #93
pjmlp wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all, my Windows machines are yet to see any instance of WSL running. As for your bash example, I have run various versions of it across many kinds of POSIX like OSes. Yes Linux is irrelevant, it is just a free beer UNIX clone, tomorrow another UNIX clone can take its place.

If you've run many kinds of POSIX-like OSes, it should be fairly obvious you're not the vast majority of folks when it comes to the Windows user base.

Indeed, I don't mix up Linux with UNIX.

Re: Last Phase of the Desktop Wars?

#95

Post by thelazydogsback »

znpy wrote: post #89

I really don't care much about the desktop wars thing, but if there's one thing that I honestly thing this is it: In the desktop wars nobody has really won, but all the users have lost. GNU/Linux on the desktop has improved a lot, but it's still very far from being good. Mac OS is very good, but it's extremely expensive because of the hardware. Windows was very good for desktop but had stability problems. Nowadays Wi…

> Windows was very good for desktop but had stability problems. Nowadays Windows is just awful for the desktop user, Microsoft is literally conducting a war against its own users.

I don't get this. I've been using *nix since PDP11 and VAX/Ultrix and I have no problems with Win10 at all, stability or otherwise - I'd much rather use it as a desktop dev environment than Linux. When it comes time to deploy something, sure it makes sense to run on Linux.

Re: Last Phase of the Desktop Wars?

#96

Post by TheRealPomax »

pjmlp wrote: post #94
TheRealPomax wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've run many kinds of POSIX-like OSes, it should be fairly obvious you're not the vast majority of folks when it comes to the Windows user base.

Indeed, I don't mix up Linux with UNIX.

And that's another thing the vast majority of folks this is for couldn't care less about. It's all the same "make it irrelevant, this is not something I should need to care about to do whatever I need WSL for".

Re: Last Phase of the Desktop Wars?

#97

Post by pjmlp »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #96
pjmlp wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, I don't mix up Linux with UNIX.

And that's another thing the vast majority of folks this is for couldn't care less about. It's all the same "make it irrelevant, this is not something I should need to care about to do whatever I need WSL for".

Indeed, had Microsoft been more serious about the POSIX subsystem on NT, and Linux would be as relevant as Minix.

WSL is about fixing that little mistake, while taping on Linux ABI as extra.

Re: Last Phase of the Desktop Wars?

#98

Post by TeMPOraL »

grishka wrote: post #66
3np wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those parts are easily removed by doing a vanilla install the first thing you do. Windows (esp 10) still had some built-in things you don't get away from though. And also all the dialogues from self-updating software and plugins.

It is possible to disable or uninstall all the user-hostile components like Windows Update, telemetry, and the app store, but it takes some effort and manual registry editing. The bigger problem, though, is all the legacy that's holding it back in the name of backwards compatibility. The WinAPI is older than myself. You can still run Windows 95 programs on your new Windows 10 PC. While useful to some, I'll never unde…

> You can still run Windows 95 programs on your new Windows 10 PC. While useful to some, I'll never understand why exactly is it done this way.

Because they make a lot of money on enterprise customers. The only way to convince them to upgrade is to guarantee the new OS version won't break their legacy software. But even on consumer market, in the 90s and 2000s it was important old videogames work on new versions of Windows, or otherwise people would not upgrade.

This comes from before the days of web applications and everything as a Service. Software vendors had to work hard to get people to pay them again.

Re: Last Phase of the Desktop Wars?

#99

Post by grishka »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #98
grishka wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is possible to disable or uninstall all the user-hostile components like Windows Update, telemetry, and the app store, but it takes some effort and manual registry editing. The bigger problem, though, is all the legacy that's holding it back in the name of backwards compatibility. The WinAPI is older than myself. You can still run Windows 95 programs on your new Windows 10 PC. While useful to some, I'll never unde…

> You can still run Windows 95 programs on your new Windows 10 PC. While useful to some, I'll never understand why exactly is it done this way. Because they make a lot of money on enterprise customers. The only way to convince them to upgrade is to guarantee the new OS version won't break their legacy software. But even on consumer market, in the 90s and 2000s it was important old videogames work on new versions of W…

So... why upgrade in the first place then, to solve what? Something I learned as a software developer is that if a piece of code is working properly, the best thing you can do is to leave it alone.

Re: Last Phase of the Desktop Wars?

#100

Post by alyandon »

unnouinceput wrote: post #59
mdifrgechd wrote: post #18

I'm buying a new computer. Currently I have only ubuntu linux machines and was just saying to someone that I would actually consider trying windows and WSL because it would let me use the linux tools I want alongside MS office, and it might be interesting to play with windows versions of things. The reason I wont actually do it though is because I'm sure that windows will be filled with commercially oriented intrusio…

I solve it. Here's my setup: - don't use online account, but offline (local) one - use WPD to uncheck absolutely everything related to windows telemetry / sending info. I keep only updates and those set to manual. - and can't stress this enough - get a PiHole, either on RPi or re-purpose a crappy old laptop. This one is also good for your smartcrap you usually get to your spouse/kids

In addition to that all that, I once caught Windows Defender submitting places.sqlite out of my Firefox profile directory so I'd recommend you turn off "automatic sample submission" in Windows Defender if WPD doesn't already do that.
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