Newfound brain structure explains why some birds are so smart
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Re: Newfound brain structure explains why some birds are so smart
#2I find our assumption that other living beings are not self aware fascinating.
Simply because we cannot speak a common language we assume creatures are drones with no intelligence or emotion, until we can somehow prove otherwise.
It almost speaks more to the human psyche than anything else.
Re: Newfound brain structure explains why some birds are so smart
#3I find our assumption that other living beings are not self aware fascinating. Simply because we cannot speak a common language we assume creatures are drones with no intelligence or emotion, until we can somehow prove otherwise. It almost speaks more to the human psyche than anything else.
I find this phenomenon very unusual. I think some people think this way because otherwise nature and society inflicts unimaginable horrors on an incomprehensible number of creatures and that is a truly soul-shaking thing to realize.
One thing I think regarding AI is it has shown Is just how complex the behaviors of these “simple” creatures really are.
Re: Newfound brain structure explains why some birds are so smart
#4Bernd Heinrich is a naturalist and professor who has written plenty of uniquely insightful and highly accessible books on the intelligence of birds, among other species.
One of his authoritative books is the "Mind of the raven", which analyzes the question of consciousness in ravens. From the description on Amazon:
"Mind of the Raven follows an exotic journey;from New England to Germany, and from Montana to Baffin Island in the high Arctic;offering dazzling accounts of how science works in the field, filtered through the eyes of a passionate observer of nature. Each new discovery and insight into raven behavior is thrilling to read, at once lyrical and scientific."
Another of his books that particularly sheds light on the unimaginably mature navigation skills and the ultraendurance of our avian brethren: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-homing-instinct-bernd-h...
Re: Newfound brain structure explains why some birds are so smart
#5I find our assumption that other living beings are not self aware fascinating. Simply because we cannot speak a common language we assume creatures are drones with no intelligence or emotion, until we can somehow prove otherwise. It almost speaks more to the human psyche than anything else.
I think of it more as an efficiency argument. Does being self aware help with survival? For the sea slug, probably not, for other (higher level) organisms maybe.
Is a pareto frontier of awareness? Trading off the increased cognitive ability it likely supplies with the increased energy consumption it requires. Whats interesting about some of these findings is, in addition to of course the pure science of it, that self-awareness may offer more benefits than previously thought.
This could have implications beyond biological understanding, perhaps in building AI agents for example.
Re: Newfound brain structure explains why some birds are so smart
#6I find our assumption that other living beings are not self aware fascinating. Simply because we cannot speak a common language we assume creatures are drones with no intelligence or emotion, until we can somehow prove otherwise. It almost speaks more to the human psyche than anything else.
Another fascinating thing is human’s perceived comprehension of aliens. Hollywood and popular literature has always conveyed the notion of someone from other planets, so much so that we have forgotten the others among us. The nature on this planet earth is still as unknown to us as any external planet. Come to think of it, humans are not that great in comprehending themselves and the nature that surrounds them. Our ability to be self-aware is technically relative and not absolute.
Re: Newfound brain structure explains why some birds are so smart
#7I find our assumption that other living beings are not self aware fascinating. Simply because we cannot speak a common language we assume creatures are drones with no intelligence or emotion, until we can somehow prove otherwise. It almost speaks more to the human psyche than anything else.
I think of it more as an efficiency argument. Does being self aware help with survival? For the sea slug, probably not, for other (higher level) organisms maybe. Is a pareto frontier of awareness? Trading off the increased cognitive ability it likely supplies with the increased energy consumption it requires. Whats interesting about some of these findings is, in addition to of course the pure science of it, that self…
I believe real intelligence, having independent agency is linked to an organism complex enough to be aware of what it is vs everything else.
The self.
A computer in a box lacks this. Everything we make lacks this so far.
Biotech is going to change that, IMHO.
Not sure electro mechanical can get there. At least not yet, though we are getting really good at it.
Re: Newfound brain structure explains why some birds are so smart
#8I find our assumption that other living beings are not self aware fascinating. Simply because we cannot speak a common language we assume creatures are drones with no intelligence or emotion, until we can somehow prove otherwise. It almost speaks more to the human psyche than anything else.
I find this phenomenon very unusual. I think some people think this way because otherwise nature and society inflicts unimaginable horrors on an incomprehensible number of creatures and that is a truly soul-shaking thing to realize. One thing I think regarding AI is it has shown Is just how complex the behaviors of these “simple” creatures really are.
Make me realize we do not yet have AI.
We do have interesting sub systems and they do have great utility. Not to crap on what is done.
But my cat can do things nothing we make can.
Re: Newfound brain structure explains why some birds are so smart
#9I find our assumption that other living beings are not self aware fascinating. Simply because we cannot speak a common language we assume creatures are drones with no intelligence or emotion, until we can somehow prove otherwise. It almost speaks more to the human psyche than anything else.
I've found that people tend to attribute human emotions and self-awareness to their pets, far beyond what science (or skilled pet trainers) would hold. And then there are other people that attribute these qualities and even the presence of a "soul" to plants, rocks, etc.. As far as the human "psyche" is concerned, I think it's inclined to animism.
Re: Newfound brain structure explains why some birds are so smart
#10I find our assumption that other living beings are not self aware fascinating. Simply because we cannot speak a common language we assume creatures are drones with no intelligence or emotion, until we can somehow prove otherwise. It almost speaks more to the human psyche than anything else.
It's not an assumption. Self awareness has been scientifically tested in many species, most prominently by using the mirror test: testing if an animal can recognize itself in a mirror by observing if its behavior changes after surreptitiously placing onto its body a mark, which the animal can only see through the mirror. One can argue about the merits of the mirror test, but it's inaccurate to say that scientists are merely making assumptions. They're doing their best to rigorously test self awareness.