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Toward a “modern” Emacs

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441–450 of 539 posts

Re: Toward a “modern” Emacs

#441
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really buy the argument I'm afraid. I've been an Emacs user for over 20 years. I like it, and find it productive. But it's stuck in a rut, in a very similar manner to Perl 5. If that isn't addressed, it will fade into the background. I'd argue that's already happened. None of my coworkers in any of the jobs I've worked in have used it, and that includes academia and various industries. It seems to be restrict…

>The keybindings need to be fixed. CUA has been the norm for what, 35 years at this point. M-x cua-mode Oh, and you're welcome.

If it's so easy to switch, and a beginner is more likely to want it on, why not set it on by default and let everyone who wants it off put it in their config?

Re: Toward a “modern” Emacs

#442
post #64
post #28

I don’t know. I read the whole article and it seems the suggestions boil down to emacs needing to be more “modern” by defaulting to dark mode, making color theming easier, changing right click behavior, the menus, and changing the shortcuts. And the author of the article would like the development process to be more “modern.” Emacs is one of the most successful text editors of all time if not the most successful. It…

> It is widely used for a staggering array of tasks. Is it? What area are you in? In my hobbyist, college, and industry experience I've never seen anyone use emacs for anything. I have seen Vim (or at least vim bindings) a few times, but I only know of emacs from older unix discussions online. Edit: Looking through stack overflow developer surveys, emacs use is in 16th place for editor popularity at ~4.5% usage, but…

I think it hugely depends on the programming languages one uses (or used to use), as well as personal history. For example basically everyone learning lisp was, for a long time, encouraged to use emacs (I think this is still the case for Common Lisp but I’m not sure about other varieties). This makes for a pretty unpleasant lisp learning curve as most people are not already familiar with emacs. Other functional languages in the ML family may not be very similar to lisp in many important ways but because their lineage went back to lisp people and environments, emacs ended up usually being the editor with the best support, though this is less the case these days.

If one looks at computer history there seem to be several versions of a cycle that looks like “crap underpowered computer slowly gets more features and better performance only to become outnumbered by a smaller slower cheaper computer.” Depending on where one fell in that cycle, emacs may not have been an option (eg if you were starting programming on dos or an early windows you likely wouldn’t be using emacs. If you were starting at the same time using a Unix workstation, emacs might be a reasonable or recommended choice).

During the early naughties you were probably using windows and not exposed to emacs unless you worked on Unix/Linux based web backends.

Re: Toward a “modern” Emacs

#444
post #42
post #39

I've been an emacs user for more than 20 years. Is it just me, or is this article completely missing the point? I've switched to VS Code because I can install extensions so easily. Getting a theme installed is not my concern at all. With emacs, I'm still never sure how to get elpa (or why not melpa) to work correctly. And, modern packages for react never seem to be available there anyway. I'm still astounded package…

Have you tried the “straight” package manager? Quite nifty.

I agree. straight.el is the only thing that makes emacs package management usable for me.

Re: Toward a “modern” Emacs

#445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a generation, vim and emacs will still be around with their minuscule but loyal user bases of tinkerers and VS code will have long been replaced by something newer and flashier.

You're on the right track. There are really 3 editors in the world: Vim, Emacs, and Yes, VSCode will be replaced by something newer and flashier, but the learning curve to switch to it will be minimal.

You forgot my favorite (before discovering Emacs), Notepad++!

Re: Toward a “modern” Emacs

#446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I care, and so should anyone who would like to see Emacs live on for another 40 years. There will be major new areas of innovation, that will require massive amounts of work, and without an energetic and large community Emacs will not be able to adapt.

> There will be major new areas of innovation I’m really curious what you mean by that, and how you see the world evolving such that Emacs, as is, won’t be able to come along with it.

Imagine a world where your terminal isn’t emulating a TTY from fifty years ago. Gary Bernhardt gave a talk about this in 2012[0].

[0] https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/a-whole-new-world

Re: Toward a “modern” Emacs

#447
post #17

The biggest threat to Emacs is a number of hard to fix performance issues. Like rendering of very long lines. Luckily for Emacs other editors have their own performance issues, but their architectures might make them more fixable. The other issue is the display model. Rendering using browser technologies enables other editors to do things Emacs just can't. I'm sure some gimmicks might bring in more users. But implici…

Honestly it's the package management that is the problem. VS Code is also kinda slow, yet it's popular because it's so easy to discover and download plugins.

Emacs has packages too: M-x package-install

Or install & configure in .emacs:

    (use-package projectile) # :ensure is enabled

Re: Toward a “modern” Emacs

#448
I am using GNU Emacs since 1999. It was one of editors in the back then Red Hat Linux distribution that I got my hands on at the train station bookstore in Stuttgart, Germany. In fact I was searching for GNU system, but larger library Witwer was closed in the evening, and I was furious that my "Windows" blocked itself, it did not have the true multi-tasking. My purpose was to find the multi-tasking, and I was of the opinion that GNU is yet another proprietary Unix like operating system. There was some license shown, I did not even want to read it, I was disgruntled with licenses, and have never respected proprietary licenses. My downloads were mostly from Warez websites, so I could not care less.

How wrong I was?! By using GNU Emacs I have discovered what is really free software. I was pleasantly surprised that I could distribute that software without fears of getting caught in Germany, I could even modify it, and what a pleasure that I have got so many programming languages available, for which I would need either to spend money otherwise or search through Warez websites.

Emacs and Vim both were my primary editors for years. I liked nvi for simplicity even more, but it did not support UTF-8 back at the time, yet I used it whenever there was need and still do today. For simple text editing, I am using vi, nano, and emacs in console, as mostly I access remote servers and need to handle either emails or configuration files.

At my office, I am using GNU Emacs for anything, it is my universal window into the computing. My Window Manager is Emacs X Window Manager or EXWM, so any video or music, I am running it through Emacs and I am using 10 workspaces.

By keypress, I am seeking through the names and locations of one of my 195877 contacts, and Emacs displays list of such contacts, by one keypress like F3, I can edit contacts where PostgreSQL is used as background database, I can open the Org file for the contact to manage contact's tasks and transactions, I can send SMS, or initiate the call through one of 3 connected mobile devices. Emacs is deciding which source phone number will be used to initiate the call by looking into the prefix and network of the destination number. If I wish to inform contacts, I will send them automatically emails and follow ups, all working through Emacs and programmed with small Emacs Lisp functions, using system software. More than 650,000 emails have been sent already. Customer relationship management is at my fingertips and need no external server. Staff can access my database and manage it through the virtual private network. If I wish to share my contacts, I can export the vCard and quickly send a file to one of my contacts, I press this window key on left side and m, and I am asked for contact name, then I choose one of emails, and file is sent to the contact. Skills and various marks or tags can be added to contacts. Quick subscribing of a contact to a group is easy possible by using Helm.

Most of my needs are satisfied with Emacs Lisp, it helps me to extend the editor to the point that I can make sales in amounts of US $100,000 quicker and easier than back then by using Thunderbird, or terminal and mutt. Yet I could not get rid of the mutt email client due to its increadible speed and customization so I am launching mutt within Emacs inside of the emacs-libvterm terminal, that works so well and integrated.

By using some of Hyperbole and Org Mode ideas, I have made the Hyperscope, my hierarchical database backed collection of hyperlinks that helps me and my mind orient and plan better. It creates Org files when necessary or views videos at exact sections or directly brings me to the referenced PDF page.

It is fricking extensible through hundreds if not thousands of various packages.

What I don't like is too many themes to customize Emacs, so I am just using the default themes, and switch from time to time.

Those are my personal use cases, I am quick and efficient, and none of other editors is offering me that type of extensibility to do what I want as Emacs does, and it is all thanks to the built-in Emacs Lisp engine and ready interface that works both on the X and on the console.

References:

- Emacs https://www.gnu.org/s/emacs - GNU https://www.gnu.org - Why GNU developed GNU Emacs and the GNU system: https://www.gnu.org/gnu/thegnuproject.html - GNU ELPA: https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/

Re: Toward a “modern” Emacs

#449
post #48
post #17

The biggest threat to Emacs is a number of hard to fix performance issues. Like rendering of very long lines. Luckily for Emacs other editors have their own performance issues, but their architectures might make them more fixable. The other issue is the display model. Rendering using browser technologies enables other editors to do things Emacs just can't. I'm sure some gimmicks might bring in more users. But implici…

Just today I edited a file which basically consisted out of a line with almost 2 million characters, my emacs was basically unresponsive for a longer time. This amount of data shouldn't slow down a modern machine that badly.

M-x find-file-literally

Re: Toward a “modern” Emacs

#450
post #39

I've been an emacs user for more than 20 years. Is it just me, or is this article completely missing the point? I've switched to VS Code because I can install extensions so easily. Getting a theme installed is not my concern at all. With emacs, I'm still never sure how to get elpa (or why not melpa) to work correctly. And, modern packages for react never seem to be available there anyway. I'm still astounded package…

In 20 years and you don't know, sounds unbelievable. I don't know what you mean, it is so easy and works:

M-x list-packages

Choose a package and install. It is all well integrated.

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