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Toward a “modern” Emacs

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Re: Toward a “modern” Emacs

#301

Though it's made great improvements in recent years, GNU Emacs, the vanilla package, is more of an unrefined platform than a more finalized product that competitors like VSCode are. SpaceEmacs is closer to such a refined product, though it's aimed at Vim users (with the 'evil' Vim-support package being front and foremost). I am not currently aware of a kind of "best-of-emacs" distribution that focuses on putting Emac…

Doom Emacs is much more polished than Spacemacs, and yet lighter weight.

Re: Toward a “modern” Emacs

#302
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is widely used for a staggering array of tasks. Is it? What area are you in? In my hobbyist, college, and industry experience I've never seen anyone use emacs for anything. I have seen Vim (or at least vim bindings) a few times, but I only know of emacs from older unix discussions online. Edit: Looking through stack overflow developer surveys, emacs use is in 16th place for editor popularity at ~4.5% usage, but…

Just to add links to the SO surveys mentionned here : - 2019: https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2019#development-e... - 2018: https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018#development-e... - 2017: https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2017#technology-_-... - 2016: https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2016#technology-de... - 2015: https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2015#tech-editor What's real…

I remain utterly perplexed by the popularity of VS Code, to me it basically does nothing well, but does a bunch of things mediocrely.

Re: Toward a “modern” Emacs

#303
post #98
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is widely used for a staggering array of tasks. Is it? What area are you in? In my hobbyist, college, and industry experience I've never seen anyone use emacs for anything. I have seen Vim (or at least vim bindings) a few times, but I only know of emacs from older unix discussions online. Edit: Looking through stack overflow developer surveys, emacs use is in 16th place for editor popularity at ~4.5% usage, but…

I've personally known 2 Emacs users in my ~15 years in the industry. I've worked in Europe for various startups and a bunch of corporations. Both of them used it as a sort of hobby/side editor, their main money maker was an IDE (VS, IntelliJ). I've probably worked with 500 developers, if not more. My personal impression is that Emacs is like the Yeti of programming editors. Everybody has heard about it, few claim to…

What language? Some languages have Emacs usage in the range of 0%, such as Java and C#.

Re: Toward a “modern” Emacs

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was touched on in the article: > Some of the ideas found in these distributions may well merit inclusion in Emacs, but that does not happen. Emacs maintainer Eli Zaretskii complained that the creators of these distributions do not contribute their work back. If the changes aren't being contributed back, any gain from them is lost for users of the default system. Creating an unnecessary fork within the user base,…

I'm not convinced there's a lot from Doom/Spacemacs that could reasonably be contributed back to Emacs. It's mostly installing and configuring other packages to have a nice default setup.

Perhaps the startup speed tweaks provided by Doom, could be enabled by default. I have seen the concept of modules implemented in a few different distributions, as well as in some users configuration. Perhaps a built-in module system would be beneficial. Doom has a deterministic package management system.

Re: Toward a “modern” Emacs

#305
post #28

I don’t know. I read the whole article and it seems the suggestions boil down to emacs needing to be more “modern” by defaulting to dark mode, making color theming easier, changing right click behavior, the menus, and changing the shortcuts. And the author of the article would like the development process to be more “modern.” Emacs is one of the most successful text editors of all time if not the most successful. It…

[deleted]

Re: Toward a “modern” Emacs

#306

There's this response that VSCode is just another editor in the vein of Sublime/BBEdit/Atom, that will be killed by a newer, shinier competitor, while emacs persists. That's a great story—indeed it was told to me by a teacher who proselytized emacs. But what if you're wrong? What if VSCode is a massive challenger? For one, no editor has had the backing of a major tech corporation. Sure, XCode and Visual Studio exist,…

> no editor has had the backing of a major tech corporation Eclipse was supported by IBM since the beginning (in fact it inherited the ideas from IBM VisualAge Smalltalk).

Eclipse falls under the "for a specific stack" category. Sure, you could probably write JS and Ruby in it now, but I doubt you could 18 years ago

Re: Toward a “modern” Emacs

#307
post #98
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is widely used for a staggering array of tasks. Is it? What area are you in? In my hobbyist, college, and industry experience I've never seen anyone use emacs for anything. I have seen Vim (or at least vim bindings) a few times, but I only know of emacs from older unix discussions online. Edit: Looking through stack overflow developer surveys, emacs use is in 16th place for editor popularity at ~4.5% usage, but…

I've personally known 2 Emacs users in my ~15 years in the industry. I've worked in Europe for various startups and a bunch of corporations. Both of them used it as a sort of hobby/side editor, their main money maker was an IDE (VS, IntelliJ). I've probably worked with 500 developers, if not more. My personal impression is that Emacs is like the Yeti of programming editors. Everybody has heard about it, few claim to…

Depends on who you know. Among my friends who went to MIT, a good number use emacs. It’s really, really nice to be able to use the same editor everywhere, regardless of whether you’re using your local machine or ssh’d into a VM or server. Also, knowing that it’s not likely to be deprecated in the next couple of decades.

Re: Toward a “modern” Emacs

#308
The Emacs user interface, I think, the general text editor, is slowly dying. We can see in the LWN article that it is very reluctant to change, and this is what evolution has learned me: if you cannot adapt, you die. Most software never make it as far as Emacs have, in any case. So it is not a failure.

But is it possible to keep Emacs as a powerful tool, working from behind, in other tools? Like a utility you drop into for specific tasks? Magit for example, or org-mode. Could that be a future for Emacs, to be integrated as a a backend for some tasks in VSCode?

Re: Toward a “modern” Emacs

#310
post #64
post #28

I don’t know. I read the whole article and it seems the suggestions boil down to emacs needing to be more “modern” by defaulting to dark mode, making color theming easier, changing right click behavior, the menus, and changing the shortcuts. And the author of the article would like the development process to be more “modern.” Emacs is one of the most successful text editors of all time if not the most successful. It…

> It is widely used for a staggering array of tasks. Is it? What area are you in? In my hobbyist, college, and industry experience I've never seen anyone use emacs for anything. I have seen Vim (or at least vim bindings) a few times, but I only know of emacs from older unix discussions online. Edit: Looking through stack overflow developer surveys, emacs use is in 16th place for editor popularity at ~4.5% usage, but…

Strange, I feel like I'm in a minority among physicists for using vim instead of emacs. Many new students seem to prefer GUI editors though...
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