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You're enlightened – now what?

whatiscalledthinking.substack.com

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Re: You're enlightened – now what?

#131

Post by Theodores »

theon144 wrote: post #5

I honestly don't get the point of the article. Is it supposed to be a jab at the modern mindfulness wave? Or is it actually speaking of "enlightenment" as it's understood in most spiritual practices, in which case none of the questions even make sense?

You can be the enlightened one in many things. Here is an example: Edward Snowdon. Re-read the article imagining yourself to be him and it might make more sense.

Was he enlightened? Well yes. He could see the system for what it was in a very Matrix type of way. Before he came out with facts we were tin foil hat wearers, certainly not enlightened.

Because Snowdon knows some of the truths he has a vantage point to see the rest of the way government works for what it is. He also has a vantage point for seeing his fellow human beings for what they are. You can count on one hand the amount of people in the spy agencies that came out in a way inspired by Snowdon. It didn't happen, they just hunkered down.

I would say that Snowdon has got the measure of his fellow man and is therefore enlightened.

You can achieve enlightenment in many ways and the spiritual practice world does not have a monopoly on enlightenment. There are probably more fraudsters than genuine enlightened in the religious world.

Enlightenment is a thing though and with it comes a whole host of other thoughts, as per the article.

Re: You're enlightened – now what?

#132

Post by Balgair »

seisvelas wrote: post #92
dr_dshiv wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to easy to reach enlightenment when you are living in a monastery with a bunch of dudes and no responsibilities but to "chop wood, carry water." But an enlightenment philosophy that can help a father of 3 with a hard marriage and a fulltime job or two...? Hmm, maybe the enlightment philosophy project will take a few thousand more years...

The Vimalakirti Sutra is about exactly this. Vimalakirti is a laymen householder who achieves enlightnment. Upon his passing, Buddha sends a bunch of spiritual masters and bodhisattva's to Vimalakirti's deathbed. Vimalakirti proceeds to chastise them for how useless their 'enlightenment' is when it doesn't help anyone in the real world, and is only a self centered quest to save one's ego from suffering. https://en.wi…

The Bhagavad Gita is similar to the OP's issues. It deals with the conflicts we all face in life and how to resolve our wants with our duties. It's not a very long read, actually.

Note: Find a translation that works for you. Specifically, the word 'duty' meant something very different than it does today.

I recommend : https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1586380192/ref=as_li_tl?ie...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavad_Gita

EDIT: For a more western take, I'd also recommend the Bible's knowledge books: Ecclesiastics, Proverbs, and Job. Again, a good translation is essential here, but I'm not about to recommend that.

Re: You're enlightened – now what?

#133

Post by darkerside »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #91
Liquix wrote: post #11

Zen saying: "Before enlightenment chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment chop wood, carry water" . Some more from Ram Dass: “Just because you are seeing divine light, experiencing waves of bliss, or conversing with Gods and Goddesses is no reason to not know your zip code.” "If you see yourself as God and then you come back from this state and somebody says, "Hey, Sam, empty the garbage!" it catches you back int…

It seems to easy to reach enlightenment when you are living in a monastery with a bunch of dudes and no responsibilities but to "chop wood, carry water." But an enlightenment philosophy that can help a father of 3 with a hard marriage and a fulltime job or two...? Hmm, maybe the enlightment philosophy project will take a few thousand more years...

That father's life of suffering is also a life with a sizable family that he had the privilege of supporting. That is enlightenment.

Re: You're enlightened – now what?

#134

Post by darkerside »

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #102
crazygringo wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we're talking about the same thing, because according to what is classically meant by spiritual enlightenment, you don't "achieve benefits through enlightenment". You certainly don't "achieve" anything, and there are no "benefits" to spread. Perhaps that may sound somewhat paradoxical, but that kind of paradoxical understanding is somewhat representative of enlightenment as a whole. Can you really think…

Of course there is no "benefit of enlightenement", it is itself its own benefit. It is a real gift, and I know many people who do their best to help as many others achieve it as they can. It is considered a service and a sacrifice to forgo one's comfort to help others achieve enlightenment. You may be imagining someone being pushy or insistent, but this does not have to be the case.

This is said like someone who had perhaps not achieved the type of enlightenment crazygringo has :)

Re: You're enlightened – now what?

#135

Post by plasticchris »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #91
Liquix wrote: post #11

Zen saying: "Before enlightenment chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment chop wood, carry water" . Some more from Ram Dass: “Just because you are seeing divine light, experiencing waves of bliss, or conversing with Gods and Goddesses is no reason to not know your zip code.” "If you see yourself as God and then you come back from this state and somebody says, "Hey, Sam, empty the garbage!" it catches you back int…

It seems to easy to reach enlightenment when you are living in a monastery with a bunch of dudes and no responsibilities but to "chop wood, carry water." But an enlightenment philosophy that can help a father of 3 with a hard marriage and a fulltime job or two...? Hmm, maybe the enlightment philosophy project will take a few thousand more years...

Makes me think of the thich nhat hanh quote: There is a saying: If a tiger comes down off his mountain and goes to the lowlands, he will be caught by humans and killed. It means if a practitioner leaves his or her Sangha, it becomes difficult to continue the practice. Taking refuge in the Sangha is not a matter of devotion. It is a matter of practice.

Re: You're enlightened – now what?

#138

Post by colanderman »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #86
Liquix wrote: post #11

Zen saying: "Before enlightenment chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment chop wood, carry water" . Some more from Ram Dass: “Just because you are seeing divine light, experiencing waves of bliss, or conversing with Gods and Goddesses is no reason to not know your zip code.” "If you see yourself as God and then you come back from this state and somebody says, "Hey, Sam, empty the garbage!" it catches you back int…

Your first quote reminded me of this from Bruce Lee: > Before I learned the art, a punch was just a punch, and a kick, just a kick. After I learned the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick, no longer a kick. Now that I understand the art, a punch is just a punch and a kick is just a kick.

Nice, I like that. It meshes with my own experience learning and internalizing various skills. If I'm interpreting it correctly, upon learning an art, each aspect of that art becomes a wide topic unto itself, to be picked apart and studied in detail. But in mastering an art, those lessons learned are internalized, and each aspect seen again as only its whole self.

Re: You're enlightened – now what?

#139

Post by orasis »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #91
Liquix wrote: post #11

Zen saying: "Before enlightenment chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment chop wood, carry water" . Some more from Ram Dass: “Just because you are seeing divine light, experiencing waves of bliss, or conversing with Gods and Goddesses is no reason to not know your zip code.” "If you see yourself as God and then you come back from this state and somebody says, "Hey, Sam, empty the garbage!" it catches you back int…

It seems to easy to reach enlightenment when you are living in a monastery with a bunch of dudes and no responsibilities but to "chop wood, carry water." But an enlightenment philosophy that can help a father of 3 with a hard marriage and a fulltime job or two...? Hmm, maybe the enlightment philosophy project will take a few thousand more years...

Householders can do it - we just have a different chop wood carry water.

Re: You're enlightened – now what?

#140

Post by v64 »

cheezymoogle wrote: post #119

Here's a story. Imagine a jigsaw puzzle. But not any jigsaw puzzle. An unbelievably huge jigsaw puzzle that's been mixed up with other jigsaw puzzles. Some of them are really old and faded. Some of them are brand new. Some are larger and some are smaller. The edges change from jagged to smooth. Like everyone else at the table, you've been trying to put this one puzzle together for years, trying out numberless pieces…

I absolutely love this story and will be stealing it wholesale from you to share with others.
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