This is why we have secular principles. Enlightenment (sub-text religious authoritarianism) doesn't come with the knowledge of international air borders, or income tax distribution.
You're enlightened – now what?
101–110 of 239 posts
Re: You're enlightened – now what?
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
>if you're enlightened then you want to spread it -- but this is the exact opposite of enlightenment, so the author has it 100% backwards. I have to disagree there. Many people who achieve benefits through enlightenment want to spread it to as many people as possible, so that others can receive help in achieving their own enlightenement.
I don't think we're talking about the same thing, because according to what is classically meant by spiritual enlightenment, you don't "achieve benefits through enlightenment". You certainly don't "achieve" anything, and there are no "benefits" to spread. Perhaps that may sound somewhat paradoxical, but that kind of paradoxical understanding is somewhat representative of enlightenment as a whole. Can you really think…
Of course there is no "benefit of enlightenement", it is itself its own benefit.
It is a real gift, and I know many people who do their best to help as many others achieve it as they can.
It is considered a service and a sacrifice to forgo one's comfort to help others achieve enlightenment.
You may be imagining someone being pushy or insistent, but this does not have to be the case.
Re: You're enlightened – now what?
#103I honestly don't get the point of the article. Is it supposed to be a jab at the modern mindfulness wave? Or is it actually speaking of "enlightenment" as it's understood in most spiritual practices, in which case none of the questions even make sense?
> Or is it actually speaking of "enlightenment" as it's understood in most spiritual practices, in which case none of the questions even make sense? You'd think that (and I agree that the article doesn't make much sense) but as a matter of fact, quite a few people seem to think that they are enlightened in the spiritual sense you're talking about, and that this means that their view of enlightenment should definitely…
Enlightenment is the action of achievement, even in a moment, of the state of Nirvana. Nirvana can mean "quenching" (like from a forge) or "blowing out".
There are definitely various interpretations what this actually means, but the early texts indicate it to be the extinguishing of Dukkha (stress) in the target subject.
The subject arrives at this state (of no suffering) by way of understanding the origins of stress to be the fact of impermanence of all things, including a soul.
Of course there are thousands of ways to become enlightened (science for one tells a lot about impermanence), but there is a single effect of those ways which is the most direct for the given context.
If you really want to see behind the curtain, go sit in Vipassana. This is what Buddha suggested, if one is interested in this attainment!
Re: You're enlightened – now what?
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
No I’m not absolutely sure. I’d love to learn how I might be wrong. But I feel pretty good about the idea. Do you have any concrete theories of how a human can _fully_ understand the entire universe?
Sure, reduce it to an abstraction where the part and the whole converge
I am not sure what do you mean by 'part' and 'whole', but if by 'part' you mean a situation for example, and by 'whole' you mean the universe, well, the situation is very subjective, and you can't really know the whole.
If you are an empiricist you can't be sure about anything, you can't be even sure that your theories are describing what 'is' the world, they are just a way to look at it.
If you are rationalist, you would believe that there are some kind of innate features of your brain, now where those features came from?
Re: You're enlightened – now what?
#105This is dumb: the author doesn't understand enlightenment at the theoretical. Plus you need to practically understand it anyways. This subject does not become easier to understand from theory.
Re: You're enlightened – now what?
#106Zen saying: "Before enlightenment chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment chop wood, carry water" . Some more from Ram Dass: “Just because you are seeing divine light, experiencing waves of bliss, or conversing with Gods and Goddesses is no reason to not know your zip code.” "If you see yourself as God and then you come back from this state and somebody says, "Hey, Sam, empty the garbage!" it catches you back int…
Yes! : ). I came here to remind everyone about chopping water and carrying wood as well ; ).
I'd add that, imho, the aphorism means, enlightenment isn't an answer to the struggles of your material existence, or even your own unhappiness, from whatever source.
Enlightenment is just enlightenment, it's not a magic happy pill which makes you no longer a flawed human being.
Re: You're enlightened – now what?
#107There are so many models of awakening it’s boggling. The traditional Theravada 4-path model is a little too psychological perfection to me. From what I understand, Buddhist ultimate insight is typically defined as the realization of the three characteristics: 1. One cannot separate the self from the context the individual is embedded in. 2. All phenomena are transient. 3. Nothing is satisfying forever, even jhanic ex…
Compassion is a common characteristic of enlightenment. If you are still marred in duality you think there is a other. In the enlightened state there really is no difference between all forms of existence.
Re: You're enlightened – now what?
#108Enlightenment is an event, not a state. And it can happen multiple times. Whether you view it as samadhi or kensho or satori.
Re: You're enlightened – now what?
#109Those who can, do; those who can't, teach.
Re: You're enlightened – now what?
#110Zen saying: "Before enlightenment chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment chop wood, carry water" . Some more from Ram Dass: “Just because you are seeing divine light, experiencing waves of bliss, or conversing with Gods and Goddesses is no reason to not know your zip code.” "If you see yourself as God and then you come back from this state and somebody says, "Hey, Sam, empty the garbage!" it catches you back int…
Sounds exactly like my lsd experience.
At the lsd height, i was everyone and the world only progressed through me.
I also knew that i wanted to keep this enlightend state and thought about mechanism to bring me back into my 'normal' form. I thought up religion to only discover that it did not work, i came to the idea of creating an idol something like lsd. Something which will give me access back to this state and will be discovered and easily to be distributed.
After that, i was normal again. Continuing my life.