Nice! There's still cool cpp stuff going on in Firefox. This is one example. https://searchfox.org/mozilla-central/source/js/src/jit/Warp...
That’s a 3300 line cpp file, care to cite a specific example?
Firefox's JIT is getting significantly faster
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Re: Firefox's JIT is getting significantly faster
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
You don't have a high opinion of the LibreWolf team. Did you know that I can still use a web browser from the last decade to surf websites? Yup. Even if FF dies, the codebase is opensource and continue to be developed.
The repo's members page [0] shows 9 users, and the first bullet point on its features page [1] is: LibreWolf is compiled directly from the latest build of Firefox Stable. You will have the the latest features, and security updates. . You believe a small group of well-intentioned volunteers can continue the work of building and iterating a modern web browser were Firefox development to end today? [0] https://gitlab.co…
It's possible, maybe not very likely but possible. Depends what happens to FF.
Re: Firefox's JIT is getting significantly faster
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pretty sure you don't know how many JVM implementations are out there since around 2000. By the way does V8 already handle TB sized heaps with 1ms pause? Or is able to scale down into embedded devices with hundred KB, while respecting real time constraints? Or able to have an implementation in JS itself? Or does V8 cache JIT code across sessions and improves it via additional PGO data gathered across the sessions his…
You are speaking of many different JVM implementations which are all specialized for one purpose. This is good and all, but splits finite resources even further without a shared benefit, and these variants have as much to do with each other as V8 has to do with Spidermonkey and JScript.
Competition is what drives progress.
Monocultures stagnate and deple resources as everyone is happy with good enough.
Re: Firefox's JIT is getting significantly faster
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're probably right about Graal, but there is no way that V8 has significantly more effort put into it than the JVM. At best, they're roughly similar, but I suspect that the JVM has quite a bit more development time and effort put into it.
I did not say that jvm historically hasn't gotten a lot of resources, but any innovation done there has been common knowledge for compiler developers for ages. V8 gets to benefit from all that research, while simultaneously having far more resources (now as well as for the past many years) to apply it, as well as do more of their own.
Perhaps I’m misunderstanding you, it seems like you’re implying that the JVM, as of today, isn’t the source of a lot of research or innovation. If that’s true, you’re incorrect. There’s a _gigantic_ amount of money, time and people involved with it, arguably more than there ever has been, and it’s only getting bigger.
While you’re correct that some of the knowledge that came out of building the implementation of the JVM has found its way into V8, there’s still cutting edge work being done into extremely sophisticated JIT complication (with graal, arguably the best in the world) and the recent work on GC is frankly stunning.
With recent JVM versions running zgc, it’s typical to see sub-millisecond GC pauses, and that’s only going to improve as they add more collection outside of safepoints and adding generational logic to it.
Net/net, while you’re correct that there’s a lot of innovation and resources behind v8 today and they’re doing fantastic work as well, don’t discount the JVM.
Yes, Java itself isn’t a hugely interesting language, but the JVM is still arguably one of the most impressive bits of software ever produced and continues to be so.
Re: Firefox's JIT is getting significantly faster
#105Re: Firefox's JIT is getting significantly faster
#106It's sad how these valuable optimizations are unknown to the average person. When I hear "the browser" discussed in almost any parlance, the implication is Chrome. It's rare to even hear someone say "Chrome," as it's the defacto choice for the non-mobile web. Convenience breeds ignorance.
Re: Firefox's JIT is getting significantly faster
#107Nice! There's still cool cpp stuff going on in Firefox. This is one example. https://searchfox.org/mozilla-central/source/js/src/jit/Warp...
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Re: Firefox's JIT is getting significantly faster
#108It's nice to see some actual good news involving Firefox. With all of the leadership and financial struggles lately, it's made me worry that the browser I've been using for the last 17 years doesn't have long to live. Hopefully that is not the case.
Is there any way we as a community of users can help ensure Firefox remains viable in the event that Mozilla can no longer provide enough support? It seems a shame that such a loved & enjoyed project might fall wayside without significant financial backing. I would say I would love to help, but I have no domain expertise in browsers/rendering, or how I would develop enough to contribute.
Use it, and if you make websites make sure you support it just as well as Chrome.
Re: Firefox's JIT is getting significantly faster
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
The last thing I want in my browser is a JVM.
There's already a VM. If Graal really brings better performance then I don't mind.
I wonder if anyone is already trying to build that. A browser based on graaljs and java rendering engine. I wonder if you could take firefox mobile and do it. I'm assuming its html/css rendering engine is in Java/Kotlin.
Re: Firefox's JIT is getting significantly faster
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
What updated title would you propose?
> What updated title would you propose? I believe, per HN policies, the most appropriate would be the title from the page: "Dogfooding Warp"
Specifically:
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
"please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize."
The original title on the linked page is "Dogfooding Warp" and the title on this HN page is still, at the moment I write this, editorialized: "Firefox's JIT is getting significantly faster"