Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute • Hacker News Board

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#301

Post by wiredfool » Fri, Sep 25, 2020, 9:05 AM UTC

filleduchaos wrote: post #246

selectodude wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dogs are pretty smart though. My one dog is very smart and can easily nab things out of the air. My less intelligent dog can't tell his ass from his elbow and things hit him in the face all the time.

What breeds are your "very smart" and "less intelligent" dog? (Asking because people tend to equate predatory behaviour to intelligence, which is both not accurate and rather alarming)

Not the poster, but:

Smart: Collie, Springer. Not so smart: Greyhound/Lurcher.

I've had collie puppies successfully herd cats.

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#302

Post by flohofwoe » Fri, Sep 25, 2020, 9:32 AM UTC

Two observations where I thought that crows are really quite smart (both related to adapting to city life):

(1) Crows picking up chestnuts from under trees, and throwing them on the road under traffic lights. Traffic light goes green, cars drive over chestnuts munching them into a yummy (for crows I guess) little porridge blobs. Wait till traffic light goes red and enjoy the meal.

(2) I was wondering why some areas near trashcans are so extremely littered and thought "pfft humans", until I watched teams of two or three crows making that mess: one jumps into the trashcan and throws out everything it finds in there, the other team mates sort through the trash to pick out the goodies.

Also crows ganging up on kestrels is very interesting to watch. The crows are employing deception and ambush tactics (although kestrels aren't dumb either).

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#303

Post by phillc73 » Fri, Sep 25, 2020, 9:52 AM UTC

hnick wrote: post #227

zw123456 wrote: post #175

I have a personal experience story regarding crows. This is completely anecdotal of course but, to me, compelling. I live on an island near Seattle, very quiet and rural. We have a lot of wild life. One morning I was woke by persistent crowing by... well crows. Black Crows (not the band). Having been awoke from wonderful REM sleep I was understandably annoyed. So I went out to the street in front of my house and grab…

Magpies (unrelated to European magpies) are similar in Australia. There are stories of multi-generational respect (that is, the parents teach the next generation not to swoop and annoy the nice human). Wikipedia says they can remember up to 100 people. Here are a few nice stories: https://theconversation.com/magpies-can-form-friendships-wit...

My mother feeds the local magpies, who turn up every morning for their free feed. One can argue about whether this is environmentally sound, but my mother lives alone and she enjoys the connection. She has them literally eating out of her hand.

This week she sent me a photo of a young juvenile magpie which had arrived for the first time, clearly brought along by the parents to learn the ropes.

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#304

Post by V-2 » Fri, Sep 25, 2020, 10:06 AM UTC

tomc1985 wrote: post #168

ekianjo wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why wouldn't they have higher intelligence? Because almost no other animal appears to think ahead of time , master fire, build tools that did not exist before? You can come up with numerous explanations as to why it's that, but what one's species' brain can come up with will be a serious constraint as well.

> think ahead of time The angry, injured tiger that killed its hunter by stalking his house and planning an ambush comes to mind https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129551... > master fire, Nothing comes to mind but I would not rule out some kind of animal using fire for some purpose > build tools that did not exist before A number of species have been shown to construct tools to make their labor ea…

Regarding the tiger - that's a fascinating story, but it's worth noting that the article stresses "it was anything but typical" and that "in living memory, there was no record of an incident like this".

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#305

Post by ggm » Fri, Sep 25, 2020, 10:37 AM UTC

hnick wrote: post #227

zw123456 wrote: post #175

I have a personal experience story regarding crows. This is completely anecdotal of course but, to me, compelling. I live on an island near Seattle, very quiet and rural. We have a lot of wild life. One morning I was woke by persistent crowing by... well crows. Black Crows (not the band). Having been awoke from wonderful REM sleep I was understandably annoyed. So I went out to the street in front of my house and grab…

Magpies (unrelated to European magpies) are similar in Australia. There are stories of multi-generational respect (that is, the parents teach the next generation not to swoop and annoy the nice human). Wikipedia says they can remember up to 100 people. Here are a few nice stories: https://theconversation.com/magpies-can-form-friendships-wit...

Magpies and Currawongs hold "court" and shun members who don't conform to local rules. And, administer punishment in exemplary fashion in front of the community.

https://www.booktopia.com.au/australian-magpie-2nd-edition-g...

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#306

Post by 2Trips » Fri, Sep 25, 2020, 10:39 AM UTC

I love crows, their simply amazing. I have always befriended the local crows every time I move. Feeding them primarily. But the most amazing experience I have had with crows is. About 6 years ago I was walking behind the Albertsons next to my apartment. I quickly notice two younger crows watching me and flying ahead to where I was eventually going to be walking. So I'm walking along when I see 2 heads peek over the edge of the roof about 50 feet a head of me. I kept walking when all of a sudden this thing falls directly in front of me. It literally barely missed the pill of my hat. When I look down to see what it was I was shocked. It was a nail an old rusty nail. I've been seeing there this nail has been on this roof probably since the roof was put on. it had rust stuck and sticking off of the sides of it. I looked up and saw what could really only be described as a couple of a teenagers pulling a prank on somebody walking by. Here's where it gets crazy. Directly ahead of me at the end of the alley that was behind the Albertsons comes this older Crow. It flew straight at these two younger ones making a loud racket as if it was an adult young at a couple of kids because they just saw them pull this prank. I gave a little chuckle to myself as it kept walking. By the time I got around to the front of the store the crew that basically yelled at the younger ones flies twords me. Now I'm walking down the middle part of the driveway in front of the store so I've got parking to my left business to my right and customers going in and out of the business because it's right around 11:00 in the morning. The crow then flies just about arms reach away from me. It then what's up this light gentle little sound followed by my only guess is an apology. I smiled at the crow how did my head said it's all right. That's what I realized that about eight maybe nine people that were around us going in and out of the store are just standing there staring at me and this Crow as I walk alon. Crowbthen flies away and I get about another 10 ft before three different people go *what was that???" I didn't know what to say so I said sorry but that was a private conversation and kept on walking. Crow are so much smarter than we give them credit for. Remember crows are the only animals in the world that are watching us studying us and anticipating our actions. There's simply amazing birds. Thanks

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#307

Post by partyboat1586 » Fri, Sep 25, 2020, 10:41 AM UTC

isolli wrote: post #276

One thing that is remarkable about crows is that they are most likely more intelligent than primates, despite having a much smaller brain. It looks like they evolved high intelligence separately, using different brain circuitry from ours.

Imagine what could happen if you scaled up the space efficient crow brain to human size.

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#308

Post by mcv » Fri, Sep 25, 2020, 10:53 AM UTC

zw123456 wrote: post #175

I have a personal experience story regarding crows. This is completely anecdotal of course but, to me, compelling. I live on an island near Seattle, very quiet and rural. We have a lot of wild life. One morning I was woke by persistent crowing by... well crows. Black Crows (not the band). Having been awoke from wonderful REM sleep I was understandably annoyed. So I went out to the street in front of my house and grab…

Your life would probably look very different if you'd thrown those pebbles at the crows like you originally intended. Crows can carry grudges for a very long time.

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#309

Post by KineticLensman » Fri, Sep 25, 2020, 10:58 AM UTC

hnick wrote: post #227

zw123456 wrote: post #175

I have a personal experience story regarding crows. This is completely anecdotal of course but, to me, compelling. I live on an island near Seattle, very quiet and rural. We have a lot of wild life. One morning I was woke by persistent crowing by... well crows. Black Crows (not the band). Having been awoke from wonderful REM sleep I was understandably annoyed. So I went out to the street in front of my house and grab…

Magpies (unrelated to European magpies) are similar in Australia. There are stories of multi-generational respect (that is, the parents teach the next generation not to swoop and annoy the nice human). Wikipedia says they can remember up to 100 people. Here are a few nice stories: https://theconversation.com/magpies-can-form-friendships-wit...

Not just true of crows. I volunteer at a raptor conservation organisation in the UK. Many of the birds (eagles, vultures, owls, etc) recognise several people, especially those that fed them when they were being trained. They demonstrate this in the free-flying displays (where they could in principle just fly off if they wanted to) by routinely returning to the keeper, sometimes after flights where they travel some distance from the display area. They are also good at recognising and responding to signals, especially those that indicate a food treat may be forthcoming. In some cases the birds dislike specific individuals and will not work with them in a display.

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#310

Post by lumberingjack » Fri, Sep 25, 2020, 10:59 AM UTC

zw123456 wrote: post #175

I have a personal experience story regarding crows. This is completely anecdotal of course but, to me, compelling. I live on an island near Seattle, very quiet and rural. We have a lot of wild life. One morning I was woke by persistent crowing by... well crows. Black Crows (not the band). Having been awoke from wonderful REM sleep I was understandably annoyed. So I went out to the street in front of my house and grab…

Hunting them you get just about the same type of stories. Sometimes they realize a hunter has set a trap in the deep forest and they will lead their enemies to the trap. I seen them use tools, and talk to warn others or say "hey get over here!"